Remaining Shards

[Turos]

Here's the currently established list of Shards by intent:

Cultivation

Devotion

Dominion

Endowment

Honor

Odium

Preservation

Ruin

I'm gonna guess the rest:

Avarice (Greed)

Fear (the one who only wants to "run and hide")

Justice

Mercy

Contemplation

Instruction

Preparation

Guile

A lot of ones that are unrelated to the current line-up, but I like 'em

[Straff Venture]

I'm guessing theres a 'love' or 'virtue' to counteract odium

[Aminar]

I could come up with possible shard intents all day and probably only get 1 or 2 right. I mean they appear to have no unifying theory I can tell. They don't relate to any of the other 16s we've seen or anything like that. This seems like something we just need to wait on.

[Cracknut]

Humor. (God Creator should have some of it)

Bargain/deal/trade or something like that. (Maybe associated with Oathpact and/or Nightwatcher)

Most likely there is a shard of Pride but its shattered otherwise we would've seen it already. Or its Dominion.

[Turos]

Humor. (God Creator should have some of it)

:lol:

[RenegadeShroom]

I'm guessing theres a 'love' or 'virtue' to counteract odium

I figure Devotion and Honour are effectively love and virtue, no? I seem to remember Brandon saying somewhere that Aona's shard was a synonym of 'love', before 'Devotion' was confirmed, and really, honour and virtue aren't too far removed from one another, I believe.

EDIT: Bleh, no, I'm wrong. Honour is a virtue, isn't it? Sorry, I sorta blanked on what virtue actually was. . . but still, I'm not convinced that a 'virtue' shard would be necessary as a counter to Odium. :3

Edited September 12, 2012 by InsurrectionistFungus

[Observer]

I'm guessing theres a 'love' or 'virtue' to counteract odium

Devotion: Love, loyalty, or enthusiasm for a person, activity, or cause.

[Straff Venture]

Devotion: Love, loyalty, or enthusiasm for a person, activity, or cause.

yeah yeah devotion is the opposite of dominion in this case, though, and i'm thinking theres probably another similar one to devotion that is the counterpart of odium

[Cracknut]

yeah yeah devotion is the opposite of dominion in this case, though, and i'm thinking theres probably another similar one to devotion that is the counterpart of odium

Maybe but I doubt that. If Odium had such a perfect opposite they would've been on same planet. Most likely its shattered then...

[Observer]

yeah yeah devotion is the opposite of dominion in this case, though, and i'm thinking theres probably another similar one to devotion that is the counterpart of odium

No, Devotion is paired wiht Dominion, there is a difference. Because Devotion isn't a perfect opposite to Odium, they didn't attract. Either that or Devotion realized he/she would get destroyed in a blink if they went up against Odium.

[Straff Venture]

My mistake. I hope that Bavadin is the 'lawyerism' shard as mentioned on another thread

[Millennium]

I'm guessing theres a 'love' or 'virtue' to counteract odium

I was thinking that Honor could fit as the counterpart to Odium: it binds things together, while Odium seems to drive things apart. It doesn't go out of its way to break things apart -that's Ruin's territory- but it's not averse to doing that, and war is a spectacular way to do both.

We've generally been thinking of the word "odium" as meaning "hate": even in TWoK, that's how Kaladin thinks of it. It can indeed mean this, but there's a second meaning: that which provokes hatred, or perhaps more to the point, that which should be hated. This second meaning is where the word "odious" comes from. If honor is taken to mean that which should be respected and/or followed, then it could indeed be said to be the opposite of odium.

The big weakness I see in this theory is the fact that Odium isn't native to Roshar. Although unpaired Shards (as Honor and Cultivation seem to be) can inhabit the same world, it seems far less likely that paired Shards would wind up on different worlds. Of course, if Odium is indeed that which drives things apart, then if any paired Shard were to start apart from its opposite, it would be him. But also worth noting is that Brandon hasn't said anything similar about Honor/Tanavast yet: perhaps it wasn't native to Roshar either, and it began with Odium on a world long since abandoned (and probably broken by Odium's wars).

Edited September 18, 2012 by Millennium

[The Count]

The big weakness I see in this theory is the fact that Odium isn't native to Roshar. Although unpaired Shards (as Honor and Cultivation seem to be) can inhabit the same world, it seems far less likely that paired Shards would wind up on different worlds.

I always got the impression that Honour was not native to Roshar either. Has ther been any word from The Big Man himself on this?

I always felt that the expulsion from the Tranquiline Halls was a metaphor for Honour / Odium and Humans originally inhabiting another (maybe close by?) world.

Then Roshar was actually Cultivation's homeworld and she gave sanctuary to Honour and Humans when Odium defeated / expelled them. Could this be part of the Oathpact?

I am reaching here, I know. I have a history of terrible confirmation bias for my theories.

However, in the above scenario Honour / Odium could have been paired on another world originally and only through circumstance has the current state arisen.

[Millennium]

I always felt that the expulsion from the Tranquiline Halls was a metaphor for Honour / Odium and Humans originally inhabiting another (maybe close by?) world.

Then Roshar was actually Cultivation's homeworld and she gave sanctuary to Honour and Humans when Odium defeated / expelled them. Could this be part of the Oathpact?

I am reaching here, I know. I have a history of terrible confirmation bias for my theories.

However, in the above scenario Honour / Odium could have been paired on another world originally and only through circumstance has the current state arisen.

Didn't he say there was going to be another novel (perhaps series?) set on another world in the same solar system as Roshar?

[name_here]

I'm kind of wondering if the Shards broadly fit a pattern similar to the allomantic metals, like so:

Human focused

-emotions

--Honor/Odium

--Devotion/???

-interactions:

--Endowment/Domination

--Cultivation/???

Physical

-Processes

--Preservation/Ruin

--???/???

-???

--???/???

--???/???

The big issues are that only Preservation/Ruin and Honor/Odium are on the same world as their pairing in this system, though it might not be a hard linkage, and that the second physical subcatagory is a huge blank. I have not the slightest idea what it could reasonably be that would not be kind of dumb. Shard of Molar Mass, anyone?

[Glaring at the Survivor]

Here's the currently established list of Shards by intent:

Cultivation

Devotion

Dominion

Endowment

Honor

Odium

Preservation

Ruin

I'm gonna guess the rest:

Avarice (Greed)

Fear (the one who only wants to "run and hide")

Justice

Mercy

Contemplation

Instruction

Preparation

Guile

A lot of ones that are unrelated to the current line-up, but I like 'em

And Sadeas is a/holds a splinter/sliver of Greed/Avarice.

Another shard: Hoid.

[name_here]

Hoid is not a Shard. He has magical powers of unknown extent, but he's presently just a mortal with time dilation and life extension powers to go with interplanetary transit.

[Glaring at the Survivor]

^

Well he should be.

---

Austre, from Warbreaker.

Edited September 29, 2012 by Stroniax

[Straff Venture]

^

Well he should be.

---

Austre, from Warbreaker.

Austre is likely endowment, as Brandon has said there is only one shard on Nalthis.

[Comatose]

What I notice about the shard intents is that they are mostly noun forms of very active verbs (the exceptions being Odium and Devotion). Ruin ruins, Preservation preserves, Endowment endows, Dominion dominates, Honor honors, etc. While Odium and Devotion are a little less straight forward (Odium hates and/or causes hate, Devotion, presumably, shows devotion by being devoted to something), they are very action based. Their intent forces them to DO something.

Since we are kind of taking shots in the dark here, I think it is useful to keep patterns like this in mind when looking at other shards. So far, all of the shard intents are coupled with actions (most of which are pretty obvious). I would like to assume that the other intents continue this pattern, which is why I'm not sure if things like fear, avarice/greed, and guile work. True, you can attach passive verbs to these (as was done with devotion: Fear is afraid of something, Greed wants more things, etc.) but they don't carry the same 'ooomph' in my opinion of the stronger verbs shown by the shards we know already.

Another important point, I think, when considering shards is how they interact with humanity. All the shards we've seen so far act out their intent in relation to humanity (the exception is Odium, who seems to primarily target other shards). Ruin wants to destroy human life, Preservation wants to preserve it. Endowment endows humans with breath and power. Devotion (if the seons as splinters of Aona's shard are any indication) was unconditionally devoted to humanity, while Dominion seems to want to dominate all of Sel. Would "Fear" be afraid of humans? How would Greed's intent engage with people?

I dunno, I could be totally off base, but that's my gut inclination when I read some of these possibilities. What do you guys think?

[ROSHtafARian]

For what its worth, in the recent Q&A I asked Brandon if the shards separated into different groupings the way the 16 base Allomantic metals had groupings like Enhancement metals, etc. He said 'Good question....RAFO', which isn't a no, so I think there might be something to that. I've always thought shards like Honor and Devotion and Odium seem to have more in common with each other than they do shards like Endowment, Ruin and Preservation. Like, Ruin and Preservation feel more like universal, natural forces, whereas Honor and Devotion feel more human focused.

[Comatose]

I was just having a conversation with Chaos about this exact topic .

My feeling is that Brandon is way to meticulous in the way he crafts his magic systems to just pick 16 random intents. There HAS to be a pattern, in my opinion, RAFO or not. Of course I could be wrong, but where's the fun in worrying about that?

Here's my hypothesized groupings of the shards we know:

Devotion, Dominion, Honor, Odium: The credit for this grouping goes completely to Chaos. I my mind, all the shards interact with the world around them, carrying out the action of their intent. HOW they do this is the way I see them being grouped. These first four all undertake abstracted actions, based on an emotional state or attitude. In order to show devotion, dominate, honor, or hate something, the shards must do OTHER things to embody these stances. Their emotional basis and indirect action is why I think they should be grouped together (Thanks again to chaos for mentioning this grouping to me).

Cultivation, Preservation, Ruin: These shards are concerned with the current STATE of things (the world, humanity, etc.) Preservation wants to preserve creation, holding that state constant and protecting it. Cultivation, it would follow, cultivate, hoping to improve the state of her object. Ruin wants to ruin his object, taking it apart piece by piece until there is nothing left. These shards have the most straight-forward and physical of the actions, which is reflected in the names of their intents. Their direct intents and state-based focus is what groups these shards in my mind. (note: there is one spot open in this group for a future shard).

Endowment: I don't have anything to compare endowment to yet, but I don't feel it fits with either of the previous groups. Endowment endows or gives. While this giving might improve the state of humanity, the alteration of said state is not the primary focus of this shards intent. If Endowment was named Generosity, I'd say it could be grouped in with the other emotionally based shards. However, Endowment is mind-set neutral, it must endow, but the spirit in which is does so is unspecified. This is why I think Endowment must be the first shard in a third group whose members we have not seen yet.

Thoughts?

[ROSHtafARian]

I like your train of thought, but I wish we had just one new non Stormlight/Mistborn/Elantris novel coming soon, because eight Shards isn't quite enough to guess accurately at divisions, considering the most likely divisions are either groups of eight or four. Knowledge of just one or two more shards would make it a lot easier to compare and contrast possible groupings.

I do definitely think whatever the groupings, Honor and Devotion are definitely similar enough to belong in a sub group. I don't quite agree that Dominion fits in with them, but its impossible to tell this early. I actually think Endowment could fit in with Preservation, Ruin and Cultivation, because they make up a mini-spectrum. Endowment is the creation, Cultivation builds on it, Preservation maintains it and Ruin destroys it...I dunno. Ruin and Preservation always kinda made me think of the Hindu triad Bhrama, Vishnu and Shiva (creation, preservation and destruction, essentially), so the Endowment/Cultivation combo kinda feels like the first half of a possible quartet with them.

But I think this line of speculation is definitely worth pursuing, because once we're able to figure out what the groupings are, it becomes a lot more possible to speculate on the final shards, based on what groupings still have openings.

[Comatose]

Random thought about a cool shard: a collector type shard whose intent is to acquire as much of humanity, the world, etc, as possible (similar to greed, I guess, but more neutral), possible named Accumulation or something. I think whoever held this shard could also create a fairly interesting magic system.

-end of completely random side-track that is not really useful at all-

[Observer]

Makes me wonder if Shards fall into the same table as allomancy. Physical and Mental almost surely. Things get odd around Temperal, but it should work fairly well.