Question about Szeth

[Kipper he/him]

Is there anything in the SA to suggest that Szeth has a greater level of power when using an Honorblade?

Edited January 24, 2015 by inexorablePanda

[Dunkum he/him]

Do you mean when he is actually wielding it, as opposed to using his surgebinding without summoning the blade?  I don't think I would draw that conclusion from any of his scenes.  And since he tends to rely heavily on surgebinding when he doesn't have the blade out, I think it is something that would have been noticeable in the books.  Unless I am misunderstanding your question...?

[Moogle]

No; the opposite in fact.
 
Szeth remarks that it would take him hours to recover from Gavilar's punch to the face. Kaladin, for reference, heals that sort of injury with absurd ease in seconds, sometimes minutes. Szeth is remarked as glowing less brightly than Kaladin whenever they meet, and he runs out of Stormlight faster. Kaladin is capable of healing from Shardblade wounds, something Szeth claims he's unable to do. Given that healing like that requires a great deal of Stormlight, it seems Szeth just can't hold enough/doesn't have enough power to do it. (Not that he ever tried.)
 
We also have a WoB on this front:

Question
If a non Windrunner picked up Jezrien's honorblade would they gain Windrunner powers as well?

Brandon Sanderson
Yes.

Question
If a Windrunner picked up that blade, would their abilities be enhanced?

Brandon Sanderson
There would be some compounding but strength is not as much an issue with surgebinding as is the strength of the spren bond and how much Stormlight you are using.
(source)

 
This conflicts with Kalak saying the Honorblades were weapons of power beyond Shardblades. The only conclusion I can draw from that is that Honorblades have abilities Szeth never learned to use. Syl claims it eats his Stormlight, so they are possibly like Nightblood and can use the Stormlight they consume to great effect.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Moogle

[Kipper he/him]

I should have said:

Does Szeth appear to have a greater level of power when Surgebinding while he is BONDED to an Honorblade...

Edit: I'm working on a theory that has to do with the levels of consumption of Stormlight by various people, and Szeth is a big one because of the Honorblade.

Edited January 14, 2015 by inexorablePanda

[Dunkum he/him]

Well we don't really know what Szeth can do after droppign the honorblade, for instance we don't even know if his abilities would continue to manifest, or if they are gone with the blade (my assummption), so the only thing to test against is Kaladin, and Moogle has that covered

[Kipper he/him]

I'm not concerned with events after he drops the Honorblade.

[taveren he/him]

um anyone else wonder how he is going to draw in stormlight for nightblood to drain from him. does he still have the basic ability to draw it in

[Kipper he/him]

um anyone else wonder how he is going to draw in stormlight for nightblood to drain from him. does he still have the basic ability to draw it in

He is a Skybreaker now.

Please do not twist my original question

[Nahlion Dahlyr he/him]

Sorry to nitpick, but on the Stormlight archive it stated this; Similarly, at a book signing, Brandon stated that a Honorblade cannot be bonded to anyone; only given.This raises the question though: What does an Honorblade do when bonded? I assume that this is how the Heralds threatened the potential Radiants into the order (seen that somewhere, can't find the source though). As for the question you actually asked, I can simply say that during the fight between Kaladin and Szeth at the end of WoR seemed pretty evenly matched, with the exception being Szeth consuming more stormlight. http://stormlightarchive.wikia.com/wiki/Honorblade

Edited January 14, 2015 by Nahlion Dahlyr

[Moogle]

Sorry to nitpick, but on the Stormlight archive it stated this; Similarly, at a book signing, Brandon stated that a Honorblade cannot be bonded to anyone; only given.This raises the question though: What does an Honorblade do when bonded? I assume that this is how the Heralds threatened the potential Radiants into the order (seen that somewhere, can't find the source though). As for the question you actually asked, I can simply say that during the fight between Kaladin and Szeth at the end of WoR seemed pretty evenly matched, with the exception being Szeth consuming more stormlight. http://stormlightarchive.wikia.com/wiki/Honorblade

 

He later corrected himself. Honorblades can be bound:

Q:  You mentioned that human can’t bond Honorblades, but Nalan tells Szeth that his bond with his Honorblade has been broken. Can you clear this up?

A:  Humans CAN bond Honorblades. There's a crucial difference between Honorblades and Shardblades. When you drop an Honorblade, it does not disappear, even if it has been bonded. A Shardblade will disappear when dropped.

(source)

 

He's also said that Honorblades work for anyone who holds them. Bonding doesn't seem to be necessary. (Though, maybe just by holding it you get a bond.)

Edited January 14, 2015 by Moogle

[Nahlion Dahlyr he/him]

He later corrected himself. Honorblades can be bound:

 

He's also said that Honorblades work for anyone who holds them. Bonding doesn't seem to be necessary. (Though, maybe just by holding it you get a bond.)

Alright, it looks like the wiki hadn't been updated for a bit. Do you know if he means bonding as in being able to summon it (we saw Szeth summon it, so definitely the bond does that), or that it is possible to unlock the power that I assume the Heralds could achieve with an Honorblade, though they may just be more powerful in a sense.

[Moogle]

Alright, it looks like the wiki hadn't been updated for a bit. Do you know if he means bonding as in being able to summon it (we saw Szeth summon it, so definitely the bond does that), or that it is possible to unlock the power that I assume the Heralds could achieve with an Honorblade, though they may just be more powerful in a sense.

 

I'm not sure. I'd guess it's like bonding a Shardblade, where if you have bonded the Blade you can summon it at will.

 

I'm not sure on anything regarding how one unlocks or uses the extra powers of an Honorblade (if they even exist).

 

On a more general speculation note on Honorblades, it might be that you can bond an Honorblade more or less strongly and get better at Surgebinding? The spren bond gets stronger with time, maybe you can do that with an Honorblade somehow. I don't think this is likely, but maybe.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Moogle

[Dunkum he/him]

He is a Skybreaker now.

Please do not twist my original question

He has joined an organization called the skybreakers with a man calling himself Nalan/Nin at their head.  While this is suggestive, it is not 100% conclusive of anything, especially not Szeth's ability to ingest stormlight and/or surgebind (note that we don't see a highspren for him after he joins, so no evidence of an actual nahel bond).

 

and I brought up seth's abilities after dropping the honorblade because you used the word "stronger", the comparative form.  we only have one point of comparison (szeth to Kaladin) for his strength, and that is very well covered in the books and by WoB.  but a theoretical second data point that we might be able to establish once book 3 is out could be whether he was stronger with it than without.

[taveren he/him]

yeah i don't think nalan can just give out spren at will

[Kipper he/him]

Thanks all. I guess the answer to my question is no, then.

[taveren he/him]

i would guess yes but we don't know what his current power levels are.

[Oudeis he/him]

He later corrected himself. Honorblades can be bound:

 

He's also said that Honorblades work for anyone who holds them. Bonding doesn't seem to be necessary. (Though, maybe just by holding it you get a bond.)

 

I give up.

[Titan Arum]

I give up.

WoB can sometimes be misleading and confusing...which leads me to a possibly controversial question: when do we begin to question/doubt if we can actually take WoB as canon without having answers from the books?

 

Also, what happens if a lot of the time Brandon simply misinterprets a question and the questioner doesn't rephrase their question because they don't realize he didn't understand them? I've seen many times where Brandon has been confused by the question and people then clarify, which leads me to believe this could happen pretty frequently without the questioner even realizing it...

[Savanorn he/him]

WoB can sometimes be misleading and confusing...which leads me to a possibly controversial question: when do we begin to question/doubt if we can actually take WoB as canon without having answers from the books?

 

Also, what happens if a lot of the time Brandon simply misinterprets a question and the questioner doesn't rephrase their question because they don't realize he didn't understand them? I've seen many times where Brandon has been confused by the question and people then clarify, which leads me to believe this could happen pretty frequently without the questioner even realizing it...

 

 

Depends on the ambiguity of the question and answer.  

 

The problem is that as far as we know, BS has a very structured and well-planned universe. Sure there's probably things he didn't think of, but using his far greater knowledge he can probably provide a lot of answers at-the-moment. If people ask questions that confuse him, well, that's to be expected in some case as well. But I'd consider WoB canon as published books and annotations. Perhaps more so.

 

More so because we've a limited insight into the cosmere in each book, and we don't always know what is happening even when it is actually happening.   

[Oudeis he/him]

That doesn't quite address Titan's concern... he's not suggesting that Mr. Sanderson doesn't full-well KNOW the answers to the questions. He's pointing out how often someone will ask a question about one book, character, magic or item, and get an answer that is clearly in reference to something else. When it's obvious, we catch it. The point is, however, that the existence of misunderstandings proves that they can happen, and we can't know we've caught every single one. Perhaps there were nuances to the question asked that Mr. Sanderson misunderstood, but the answer he gave sounds like it could fit the question, so we think it's fine and let it go.

 

Under most circumstances, I'm willing to accept WoB as canon, especially when it's clear, specific, and unequivocal. In a case like Honorblades, however, when he's contradicted and corrected himself so many times... well, it proves that in the past, we've either misunderstood him, he misspoke, or he simply changed his mind since. Or, one of a number of other reasons that might lead to miscommunication. Since one of those has happened in the past, it proves it's possible it happened again. In an instance like this, with such clearly ambiguous WoB, I feel like picking one or two things that support our personal theory and saying, "This is the WoB that's true, all the others are wrong" doesn't have a great deal of support.

[Kipper he/him]

That doesn't quite address Titan's concern... he's not suggesting that Mr. Sanderson doesn't full-well KNOW the answers to the questions. He's pointing out how often someone will ask a question about one book, character, magic or item, and get an answer that is clearly in reference to something else. When it's obvious, we catch it. The point is, however, that the existence of misunderstandings proves that they can happen, and we can't know we've caught every single one. Perhaps there were nuances to the question asked that Mr. Sanderson misunderstood, but the answer he gave sounds like it could fit the question, so we think it's fine and let it go.

 

Under most circumstances, I'm willing to accept WoB as canon, especially when it's clear, specific, and unequivocal. In a case like Honorblades, however, when he's contradicted and corrected himself so many times... well, it proves that in the past, we've either misunderstood him, he misspoke, or he simply changed his mind since. Or, one of a number of other reasons that might lead to miscommunication. Since one of those has happened in the past, it proves it's possible it happened again. In an instance like this, with such clearly ambiguous WoB, I feel like picking one or two things that support our personal theory and saying, "This is the WoB that's true, all the others are wrong" doesn't have a great deal of support.

Aaaaaamen.

[Savanorn he/him]

That doesn't quite address Titan's concern... he's not suggesting that Mr. Sanderson doesn't full-well KNOW the answers to the questions. He's pointing out how often someone will ask a question about one book, character, magic or item, and get an answer that is clearly in reference to something else. When it's obvious, we catch it. The point is, however, that the existence of misunderstandings proves that they can happen, and we can't know we've caught every single one. Perhaps there were nuances to the question asked that Mr. Sanderson misunderstood, but the answer he gave sounds like it could fit the question, so we think it's fine and let it go.

 

Under most circumstances, I'm willing to accept WoB as canon, especially when it's clear, specific, and unequivocal. In a case like Honorblades, however, when he's contradicted and corrected himself so many times... well, it proves that in the past, we've either misunderstood him, he misspoke, or he simply changed his mind since. Or, one of a number of other reasons that might lead to miscommunication. Since one of those has happened in the past, it proves it's possible it happened again. In an instance like this, with such clearly ambiguous WoB, I feel like picking one or two things that support our personal theory and saying, "This is the WoB that's true, all the others are wrong" doesn't have a great deal of support.

 

 

Ah, so the concern is more in a Stormfather-Dalinar vein then?

 

As for that, I'd be inclined to go ambiguity-recency as we find out more and more, a current question should trump a prior one. That said a clear or specific answer should rank above a general. 

 

I'd still be inclined to take WoB as canon as the books, unless we have some reason to doubt. 

[natc]

To begin with, I'm not sure how we could've answered the original question when his power level when bound to the honorblade is the only power level we even know of for Szeth. Surgebinding wise. Nightblood's power is already a known fact and honestly shouldn't even give him similar powers at all, unless something changed about the lil' guy in the last few centuries.

[AerionBFII he/him]

If anything Szeth seemed at a disadvantage during his fight with Kal, his Honorblade remained stationary in Swordform, it took ten heartbeats to summon,he was unable to heald Shardblade inflicted wounds and consumed Stormlight at a much faster rate. I've always harbored the suspicion that the Honorblades were superior than normal Shardblades but we wont really see what/if any more functions until it is wielded by a Herald.

 

On the otherhand Brandon always puts emphasis on perception so maybe Szeth was actually restricting the Honorblades full powers by his perception, Szeth believes it takes ten heartbeats to summon therefore it takes ten heartbeats to summon. the same with the wounds Kal inflicted.

 

I would honestly find it very odd if the Knights Radiant with the use of the Nahel Bond were actually superior to Honorblades, there must be something we are missing. When it's finally revealed i can see a "FACE PALM" in the works.

[CHOUTAGOD he/him]

I'm in agreement with Sieduo The Creators words are law!!!!

Concerning Szeth personally I think he has been training his whole life and so can get the most out of his Honorblade. As far as non-Heralds go of course. Which makes him a virtual death machine compared to a shardbearer already ridiculous abilities.

Just my opinion though.

Chouta anyone?!