Odium's Champion

[MistSailer]

So I just finished TWoK -again-. Once again something that really stuck out for me was Honor/Tanavast's reference to a champion in Dalinar's last vision. Who is/will be this champion? What is a champion?

Second question first I guess. (I'm sure this has been addressed before, I'm new shut up =P)I'm guessing this will work very similarly to Vin. Also Raoden. Both were chosen by a shard to save/rebuild/assume the world/the world/the shard. (Apparently I'm a fan of convoluted slash phases). Vin is chosen by both shards, but Preservation is sneakier, so that works out. Raoden, I think, is chosen by something about Aona that is a little less defined then whatever in Preservation chose Vin (and of course much less than Ruin's direct manipulations). Hence his attacks by the Dor (sorta the mist parallel right guys?). So we've seen it as a theme. If I wanted to expend the effort I could scour Warbreaker and choose one of the characters as Endowment's champion...or maybe that will be in the sequel.

So! My theory. It seems pretty obvious that Kaladin has been chosen by Tanavast in some way. Whether directly, by some spiritual lineage (CHILD OF HONOR), I'm not so sure. I guess there aren't any hard and fast rules for shardic champions yet. HOWEVER, what if Odium has also chosen Kaladin. Proof: none yet. Indirect prrof: We've seen this before (vin). Two competing shards picking the same champion, so that the battle for their soul/mind/intent is also for the world(/world/world ). This would also make the summary on the back of WoK very interesting. Maybe "one of them may save us" -and- "one of them will (this definitive scares me very much) destroy us" are actually both Kaladin! (cause Szeth seems too obvious, I actually also think he might be the savior, Hrathen style). Again I have no basis, but I think if anyone (please respond </shameless dig>) were to follow this out and see what the repercussions are it could be interesting.

It also (if true) would raise questions. Are Kaladin's one or two visions from Honor/Heralds actually? Or are they the first sign of Odium's malicious intervention. Syl...player or pawn? (Sorry, inside joke from my high school, when everyone wrote Hamlet essay's about Gertrude...don't be mad) What about Dalinar?

Anyway. Please, find some solutions to this equation; find the end of the string in this knot.

[rags]

I just love wild theories!! I am bored of trying to pick holes in theories, so I am going to support this one, even though it is as likely as Hoid giving up on being cryptic.

Kaladin HATES Lighteyes = proof for Odiums influence on Kaladin.

Kaladin can ride the storms + Highstorms are likely of Odium (they are getting stronger as we approach desolation) = Kaladin is Odiums champion

But I must point out...we have no proof that Raoden was chosen by Aona. In fact it is unlikely given how she is dead and devotion splintered.

[MistSailer]

I just love wild theories!! I am bored of trying to pick holes in theories, so I am going to support this one, even though it is as likely as Hoid giving up on being cryptic.

Kaladin HATES Lighteyes = proof for Odiums influence on Kaladin.

Kaladin can ride the storms + Highstorms are likely of Odium (they are getting stronger as we approach desolation) = Kaladin is Odiums champion

But I must point out...we have no proof that Raoden was chosen by Aona. In fact it is unlikely given how she is dead and devotion splintered.

I hadn't thought of his hate! It's exactly what humans -don't- need as the Final Desolation approaches. Almost unfortunately the light and darks are going to have to cooperate if they want to beat this. Honor's biggest message to Dalinar is UNITE THEM, and Kaladin, as such influences (if we go with this), can't do that. He might even, in the name of saving the darkeyes, work -against- Honor buy trying to overthrow/overpower/kill the lighteyes. (Luckily Dalinar has shown there is still h/Honor in lighteyes.

As far as Raoden is concerned, is as much as said that the Dor uses him. My belief is that the Dor is basically Sel's word for Investiture (aka Vin/Vasher/Shallan with their allomancy/Breath(endowment? I forget is there a name for that art?)/Soulcasting are all tapping into the Dor. However I don't think it was the whole Dor being jammed (get it?), as we see the Monastary monks accessing it through Skai (I'm assuming), and of course allomancy and otheres were used extensively for a period of at least 1000 years, which overlaps the fall of Elantris (if I have my timeline right). SO, the Dor was just blocked (dammit Szeth, stop Lashing the Dor shut [i'm gonna milk this one for all it's worth]), in just one instance (shard). I believe therefore that not only was the Dor championing Raoden for non-sentient reasons, aka he tried to access it a bunch, but the leftovers of Aona championed him to help restore the real focus of her(?) investiture. Preservation was terribly sentient after he imprisioned Ruin and he STILL was able to totally own him in the double-guessing/crossing/championing game they played for 1024 years. So yeah, big rebuttal for small point.

Lastly, I don't know if riding the storms is proof of this theory. The Radiants were said to ride the storm (don't have a quote, but I think this is mentioned by Teft, with sources in his ancestry of the people who waited for the Radiants, and I feel that the tidbits we get from him/them are accurate/based in fact) and we know that at the height of their powers, they were of Honor (their shardplates/blades glowed with his power). So I think his surgebinding and his riding the storm come from the same place (Honor), but it's being twisted by Odium. Hence the double championing.

Also, for some proof shoe-horning (is that a thing), when Honor says that getting Odium to pick a champion "might work for [Dalinar/humanity]" it would make sense (for my/this theory to work) if Honor meant that to mean he would champion the same person. (Like with Vin)

A consequence I thought of: it will rip Kaladin apart if this is 1. true, 2. he finds out and 3. it cause him to do harm. Once again he will have "failed," and his flaw seems to be that just as he climbs a mountain, he loses someone(s) and loses all will as he assumes (faux?[see hoid's story and kaladin's contemplation afterward]) responsibility for it. Unless that theme was solely for this book, and in saving br 4 he's over that, I bet this would be the peakiest of his despair vis-a-viz this sense of responsibility.

[Vortaan he/him]

I'd agree with this if Kaladin had done anything Vin-like, in the whole "Oh, by the way Allomancy can be powered by the mists and I can pierce copperclouds" vein. Kaladin has, so far, only done things we've seen Szeth do, albeit in a different manner.

You've got me thinking about the Odium's champion working out for Honor though. Why would it benefit Honor if Odium chose a champion? The best example we have of a Shard choosing a champion is Vin (who is really more of a successor)... and Marsh. Marsh could easily be said to be Ruin's champion, and look how well that worked for Ruin. It almost leads me to believe that there is a subtle theme that people can only be pushed so far inherent in the champion idea. As though a Shard can only push someone so far into their intent before the person pushes back. For every Push there is a Pull...

Anyway, I find this kind of unlikely, but we'll see.

[MistSailer]

It's possible that we haven't seen any Odium manifestation along those lines because we're only 1/10th of the way into the epic. And the fact that Kaladin is manifesting powers at all is pretty strange. No one has in 45 hundred years (Szeth doesn't count, he got them through some other method (hence no spren). Also we don't even know exactly what Odium powers. So it's hard to see if Kaladin has manifested that in any way.

As far as benefits go, I think dual-championing could work for Honor the same way it worked for Preservation, though the benefits and planning required to pull off a similar double cross will have to be done by the humans, as Honor is dead. Hell maybe Honor is referencing the battle for Scandrial. Seeing it work there, he passes winning strategies onto Dalinar. How conscious of other shardworlds are the Shards?

[Vortaan he/him]

It's possible that we haven't seen any Odium manifestation along those lines because we're only 1/10th of the way into the epic. And the fact that Kaladin is manifesting powers at all is pretty strange. No one has in 45 hundred years (Szeth doesn't count, he got them through some other method (hence no spren). Also we don't even know exactly what Odium powers. So it's hard to see if Kaladin has manifested that in any way.

As far as benefits go, I think dual-championing could work for Honor the same way it worked for Preservation, though the benefits and planning required to pull off a similar double cross will have to be done by the humans, as Honor is dead. Hell maybe Honor is referencing the battle for Scandrial. Seeing it work there, he passes winning strategies onto Dalinar. How conscious of other shardworlds are the Shards?

Actually, Shallan and Jasnah are also using Knights Radiant abilities (Soulcasting). So Kaladin isn't alone, although he is the only darkeyes depicted so far. I guess that's another similarity to Vin.

[Zas678 he/him]

I've had questions about the Champions for a while now too.

I believe that Dalinar is much more likely to be a Champion of Honor than Kaladin is.

Think of what Vin had: She had special powers (That allowed her to access the Well), she had special information (That allowed her to learn about the Well), and she had special positionings (That allowed her to find the Well).

Kaladin has special powers, but I don't think his powers are outside the norm for a Windrunner. Not yet anyways.

He doesn't really have any information besides the Stormriding.

He sort of has special positioning, but not any more than Dalinar has.

Dalinar doesn't have any special powers-yet. His book is still to come, and I think that the whole "glowing Shardplate" thing needs to be resolved.

He has quite a bit of information. The Visions he keeps getting from Honor, Honor's annotations to those visions, are all going to be very helpful in the long run.

Dalinar, as the real power behind the throne and as the now Highprince of War has quite a bit of influence. He will be able to control one of the largest armies in the world, his niece has discovered the Voidbringers identity, and his romantic interest is a brilliant fabrial creator. And he has connections to two potential Knight Radiants (Elhokar and Jasnah).

Really, the biggest thing to me is the Visions. The fact that Dalinar is receiving them, rather than Kaladin seems to tell me that Dalinar is Honor's champion.

We could also look at Ruin's champion post-ascension- Marsh. Marsh is Ruinous, is Ruin's mouthpiece, does Ruin's critical tasks.

Dalinar is Honorable, has information that he could spread to become Honor's mouthpiece, and has been tasked with Uniting Them (Which I believe to hold to all of Roshar, not just Alethekar).

[Smidge]

I doubt we'll see another 'both shards choosing the same champion' situation in Stormlight simply because it's already been done before. I think it's more likely that Brandon will do something different this time, either no champions or different champions. Although we do have 3 shards on Roshar, would Cultivation also get a champion? Or would the ideal 'good' champion be of both honor and cultivation? Could be interesting.

[name_here]

I kind of think Champions are unique to Roshar. I mean, Vin could definitely be called Preservation's Champion because he was sending her power via the mists, but Marsh and Elend also got direct power from their associated Shards for their duel, and we learned that it was difficult for Shards to counter power being granted despite being able to deadlock everything else. So if it's the same thing, why would Honor want Odium to choose a champion? It seems to be drawback-free, aside from Ruin's elaborate plot to get Vin to kill TLR and trigger the well, which wouldn't be a problem for a Shard who could keep tabs on their champion.

I personally think Honor managed to create a magically binding proxy combat-by-champion set of rules that Odium will be dragged into if he chooses a champion.

[Roamer]

I have a man on the inside who has confirmed not only that odium has selected a champion, but that champion's identity as well. Spoilerific reveal below

Edited August 9, 2012 by Roamer

[Vortaan he/him]

I kind of think Champions are unique to Roshar. I mean, Vin could definitely be called Preservation's Champion because he was sending her power via the mists, but Marsh and Elend also got direct power from their associated Shards for their duel, and we learned that it was difficult for Shards to counter power being granted despite being able to deadlock everything else. So if it's the same thing, why would Honor want Odium to choose a champion? It seems to be drawback-free, aside from Ruin's elaborate plot to get Vin to kill TLR and trigger the well, which wouldn't be a problem for a Shard who could keep tabs on their champion.

I personally think Honor managed to create a magically binding proxy combat-by-champion set of rules that Odium will be dragged into if he chooses a champion.

If Honor did create such a system, it could explain how Odium killed him. They both get bound to this deal, and Odium's champion ends up killing Honor's, thereby killing Honor. If I were to take a bet on when this took place, I'd bet when the Sunblesser (I think is his name) destroyed the hierarchcy.

[discorat she/her]

I know this is five years late but,

 

Dalinar is supposed to pick the champion, right? And our best guess is that Kaldin will be our champion. Lets hope dalinar wont have to pick kaladin to fight adolin

[Watchcry he/him]

I can see Adolin going full on dark side. That'd make a great story line

[Guest]

What would be interesting is discussing characters turning to Odium which aren't Adolin... He sincerely is about the worst possible choice and the least plausible character. There are so many better realistic options within the cast!

How about Elhokar, Renarin, Reddin, Relis Ruther, Jakamav, Moash? How about Ialai (Who said the Champion had to be a fighter, this is highly restrictive...)? How about Sebrarial?

How about one of those characters which may actually have a valid reason to turn evil, whom wouldn't shy from fighting Dalinar, whom actually have character traits which could be manipulated by Odium, whom may have something substantial to gain from it? How about someone actually wanting power, fame and reconnaissance? Why always focus on the one character whom never asked for anything for himself, whom has consistently fought to protect others with as much honor as he could just because he killed about the worst villain we have had in the story so far?

Since when is killing the antagonist a red flashing light for going down an evil path?

[Chinsukolo]

26 minutes ago, maxal said:

What would be interesting is discussing characters turning to Odium which aren't Adolin... He sincerely is about the worst possible choice and the least plausible character. There are so many better realistic options within the cast!

How about Elhokar, Renarin, Reddin, Relis Ruther, Jakamav, Moash? How about Ialai (Who said the Champion had to be a fighter, this is highly restrictive...)? How about Sebrarial?

How about one of those characters which may actually have a valid reason to turn evil, whom wouldn't shy from fighting Dalinar, whom actually have character traits which could be manipulated by Odium, whom may have something substantial to gain from it? How about someone actually wanting power, fame and reconnaissance? Why always focus on the one character whom never asked for anything for himself, whom has consistently fought to protect others with as much honor as he could just because he killed about the worst villain we have had in the story so far?

Since when is killing the antagonist a red flashing light for going down an evil path?

Mr. T !  Diagram maybe skewed by Odium to lead Mr. T to take the world where he want's it so he can win.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Chinsukolo said:

Mr. T !  Diagram maybe skewed by Odium to lead Mr. T to take the world where he want's it so he can win.

Oh yeah great pick. I forgot about him.

[discorat she/her]

On 7/5/2017 at 1:00 AM, maxal said:

What would be interesting is discussing characters turning to Odium which aren't Adolin... He sincerely is about the worst possible choice and the least plausible character. There are so many better realistic options within the cast!

How about Elhokar, Renarin, Reddin, Relis Ruther, Jakamav, Moash? How about Ialai (Who said the Champion had to be a fighter, this is highly restrictive...)? How about Sebrarial?

How about one of those characters which may actually have a valid reason to turn evil, whom wouldn't shy from fighting Dalinar, whom actually have character traits which could be manipulated by Odium, whom may have something substantial to gain from it? How about someone actually wanting power, fame and reconnaissance? Why always focus on the one character whom never asked for anything for himself, whom has consistently fought to protect others with as much honor as he could just because he killed about the worst villain we have had in the story so far?

Since when is killing the antagonist a red flashing light for going down an evil path?

Yeah, but wouldn't Odium want someone strong? Someone that knows how to fight? (Elhokar would be a good choice). Renarin is a sweetheart, i don't know what would trigger him to turn to Odium - plus, him being a radiant might make him immune to odiums manipulation?

 

Id just guess that at the very end, when Odium is the strongest, he decides to choose Adolin, and lets Adolin act as a spy for a while, only to strike at someone when they're all together. Maybe Adolin attacks Shallan.

Oh - also i didn't mean killing the antagonist is a sign of going down an evil path - but he might get weaker mentally because of it - not evil - just weaker etc. Then when hes vulnerable Odium would be able to take control of him? and not with adolins consent. Its NOT what i want to happen though.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Discofrish

[Guest]

20 hours ago, Discofrish said:

Yeah, but wouldn't Odium want someone strong? Someone that knows how to fight? (Elhokar would be a good choice). Renarin is a sweetheart, i don't know what would trigger him to turn to Odium - plus, him being a radiant might make him immune to odiums manipulation?

Renarin wants to prove himself, he wants to be useful: he seems willing to go at length to be perceive as a worthy man which he associates with him becoming a soldier. If Odium has a means to give him this gratification he is missing, if he has the means for him to feel he is a soldier, then I definitely think Renarin could fall for it. He may not be a fighter, but Odium may not be looking for a fighter. Also, we have no idea if being a Radiant makes one immune to Odium's influence, it may be it doesn't.

20 hours ago, Discofrish said:

Id just guess that at the very end, when Odium is the strongest, he decides to choose Adolin, and lets Adolin act as a spy for a while, only to strike at someone when they're all together. Maybe Adolin attacks Shallan.

Oh - also i didn't mean killing the antagonist is a sign of going down an evil path - but he might get weaker mentally because of it - not evil - just weaker etc. Then when hes vulnerable Odium would be able to take control of him? and not with adolins consent. Its NOT what i want to happen though.

I disagree Adolin is the strongest: he is the best duelist, but I am not convinced he is the "strongest". He gets unsettled very easily and typically fears anything which is new nor different. He isn't prone to jump into the unknown which makes less susceptible to fall prey to the luring of evil. This being said, I absolutely do not see Adolin spying on his family nor attacking Shallan. This is way too OOC for him not to forget he has nothing to gain from it.

The only way I could see Adolin oppose his family is if he is told his betrayal would save them, if he believes he has to sacrifice his integrity to ensure their survival only to find out he was duped. He would then switch his guns back and try his best to undo it: he would never become a villain, this I absolutely do not see happening.

[discorat she/her]

3 hours ago, maxal said:

Renarin wants to prove himself, he wants to be useful: he seems willing to go at length to be perceive as a worthy man which he associates with him becoming a soldier. If Odium has a means to give him this gratification he is missing, if he has the means for him to feel he is a soldier, then I definitely think Renarin could fall for it. He may not be a fighter, but Odium may not be looking for a fighter. Also, we have no idea if being a Radiant makes one immune to Odium's influence, it may be it doesn't.

I disagree Adolin is the strongest: he is the best duelist, but I am not convinced he is the "strongest". He gets unsettled very easily and typically fears anything which is new nor different. He isn't prone to jump into the unknown which makes less susceptible to fall prey to the luring of evil. This being said, I absolutely do not see Adolin spying on his family nor attacking Shallan. This is way too OOC for him not to forget he has nothing to gain from it.

The only way I could see Adolin oppose his family is if he is told his betrayal would save them, if he believes he has to sacrifice his integrity to ensure their survival only to find out he was duped. He would then switch his guns back and try his best to undo it: he would never become a villain, this I absolutely do not see happening.

It WOULD make sense when you put it like that, but isn't Renarin supposed to be the smarter one of the two? Thats why I doubt its Renarin. I'm just speculating by saying the mains are gonna be on odiums side - it would make more sense for it to be Eshonia. 

 

And about Adolin being scared of anything new - he still did kill Sadeas. And we have no idea how hes going to change after that - I'm expecting a mental struggle. And I have no idea if that struggle is going to make Adolin more like Dalinar is now or more like Dalinar used to be before. I doubt Dalinar would let Adolin go down a bad path though. It's not something I want either as hes one of my favorite characters.  

And about Adolin not becoming a villain - makes sense. Hes probably the kindest one out of the lighteyes. While Dalinar is more righteous and honorable, Adolin is loyal and kind. I'm really hoping they all survive until the end.

[Calderis he/him]

9 hours ago, Discofrish said:

It WOULD make sense when you put it like that, but isn't Renarin supposed to be the smarter one of the two? Thats why I doubt its Renarin.

While intellect and critical thinking ability help avoid manipulation, they don't make you immune. 

Additionally, when highly intelligent people are manipulated, that intelligence works against them, because they usually believe they have thought through their decisions carefully. Their ability to reason effectively convinces them that they are correct, and it is much harder to change their minds. 

[What's a Seawolf?]

If it does end up becoming a duel between champions, I really think the following death rattle is referencing Odium's choice.

"I hold the suckling child in my hands, a knife at his throat, and know that all who live wish me to let the blade slip.  Spill its blood upon the ground, over my hands, and with it gain us further breath to draw."

I'm rereading WoK now, so maybe in WoR Kaladin's lessons from his father are less of an internal thought, but his father's 'you either take lives, or save them' mentality seems to be HUGE with Kal.

I can see Kaladin as Honor's champion, and Odium countering with a baby.

[KevinTheHerdazian he/him]

For the longest time I thought that Sadeas was going to be his champion, because of chapter 29 of WOR. He seems consumed in the thrill which is one of Odium's heralds isn't it? But alas, I deduced wrong...

[Guest]

19 hours ago, Discofrish said:

It WOULD make sense when you put it like that, but isn't Renarin supposed to be the smarter one of the two? Thats why I doubt its Renarin. I'm just speculating by saying the mains are gonna be on odiums side - it would make more sense for it to be Eshonia. 

 

And about Adolin being scared of anything new - he still did kill Sadeas. And we have no idea how hes going to change after that - I'm expecting a mental struggle. And I have no idea if that struggle is going to make Adolin more like Dalinar is now or more like Dalinar used to be before. I doubt Dalinar would let Adolin go down a bad path though. It's not something I want either as hes one of my favorite characters.  

And about Adolin not becoming a villain - makes sense. Hes probably the kindest one out of the lighteyes. While Dalinar is more righteous and honorable, Adolin is loyal and kind. I'm really hoping they all survive until the end.

I have not seen significant book evidence which would support the affirmation of Renarin being smarter than Adolin. He certainly is more interested into the workings of fabrials, he might have memorized items onto subjects he has interest in, but he has yet to display Adolin's level of analytical and strategical skills. He might have known about the Nightwatcher and find a way to test his father's visions, but Adolin has solved more complex and difficult situations while being within more stressful situations. Also, when Renarin is faced with his screaming Blade, his reflexes aren't to try to understand nor to find a solution, they are to cave in and endure. Shall Odium attempt to snatch him, would Renarin even question himself or would he think it is just him and his head?

@Calderis is also right, being smart does not prevent one from being manipulated. Taravangian is the prime example: because he was smart on the day he wrote his Diagram, he does not question it.

Adolin generally reacts to things which are unknown to him in fearful ways. While we have no idea of how he will change, he might be less inclined to listen to evil words. This being said, if he is cleverly manipulated, if he is made to believe what his father is doing is wrong, bad for his people and/or if he thinks his actions might actually save his family, then yes, it would be a way for him to become an antagonist, but a highly conflicted one, not one with a purpose. Learning the truth would totally unset him.

And yeah, Adolin is loyal and kind, it would take a very strong trauma for him to fall onto the wrong side and even if it happens, I do feel it would be short-lived. For instance, I could see Taranvangian manipulating Adolin only for Adolin to rebel once he finds out what he has done. 

[Calderis he/him]

@maxal I mainly agree with your post. 

I don't see either Brother as "more" intelligent, they're just intelligent in different ways. Renarin has your stereotypical book smarts, whereas Adolin is more competent in applied/emotional intelligence. 

Renarin can probably figure out a more complicated problem in an ideal situation, like with your example of Dalinar's visions. 

Adolin is much much better under pressure, actually applying knowledge to a situation in action. Compare any scene with Adolin in combat using knowledge of stances and strategy or the structure of the Shattered Plains after learning of them from Shallan. 

The problem is that people only tend to recognize one of these as intelligence. They relate memorization and conceptual understanding to being intelligent. Like Jasnah says though, what is the point of knowledge if you don't use it? 

I've met people who are brilliant when it comes to conceptual thought, who have no "common sense". 

If you don't have both, you have a major problem. So I take it back. Adolin wins. He may not have as extensive or varied knowledge base as Renarin, but in situations of real stress, Adolin acts and applies his knowledge, where at least so far, Renarin seeks guidance or freezes. 

This may change as Renarin grows as a character, but for now, Adolin is better able to apply his knowledge, which, contrary to many people's interpretation of that word, makes him the more intelligent of the two. 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Calderis said:

@maxal I mainly agree with your post. 

I don't see either Brother as "more" intelligent, they're just intelligent in different ways. Renarin has your stereotypical book smarts, whereas Adolin is more competent in applied/emotional intelligence. 

Renarin can probably figure out a more complicated problem in an ideal situation, like with your example of Dalinar's visions. 

Adolin is much much better under pressure, actually applying knowledge to a situation in action. Compare any scene with Adolin in combat using knowledge of stances and strategy or the structure of the Shattered Plains after learning of them from Shallan. 

The problem is that people only tend to recognize one of these as intelligence. They relate memorization and conceptual understanding to being intelligent. Like Jasnah says though, what is the point of knowledge if you don't use it? 

I've met people who are brilliant when it comes to conceptual thought, who have no "common sense". 

If you don't have both, you have a major problem. So I take it back. Adolin wins. He may not have as extensive or varied knowledge base as Renarin, but in situations of real stress, Adolin acts and applies his knowledge, where at least so far, Renarin seeks guidance or freezes. 

This may change as Renarin grows as a character, but for now, Adolin is better able to apply his knowledge, which, contrary to many people's interpretation of that word, makes him the more intelligent of the two. 

I so agree with you. While I do think Renarin might have higher capacities in terms of pure academic (or he is just more interested, Adolin's problems with formal learning seems to be a lack of interest, not a lack of capacities), he doesn't seem to have strong abilities into applying them. Unfortunately, because he is introverted, secretive, awkward and he wears glasses, most readers have decided he was the smarted one, but I have always felt book evidences weren't conclusive. It is also true readers would generally rate "book smart" higher on the scale then "street smart": Renarin is probably a good thinker, when given time and a calm environment without any pressure, but Adolin is the one who is able to think and act when put on the spot.

I also do think Adolin taking direct knowledge and applying it to a complex real-life situation in order to gain a massive advantage was beyond smart. He is good at solving problems, at finding solutions, at drafting sound strategies. While I would say we lack evidence to conclude which brother is smarter than which brother, I would definitely not sell Adolin short. Adolin being smart is actually one of my argumentation point, I have however not been all that successful into convincing people he wasn't an idiot. Readers will also think the dashing handsome duelist will be dumb, just as people would think a woman stupid if she is blond (well maybe not, but we all know the cliche).

Renarin definitely isn't an action man nor a quick thinker, but I am sure his abilities can be put to better use then they have so far. It's going to be interesting to see where he goes.