Turos Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 Depends on the origin of the moon sceptre, most likely. It is a relic because of its origin. What people think about it may be different than what it is, in Shai's time. I wonder if Feruchemy as we know it is simply a crude form of it that was discovered because it was more likely to happen. Perhaps there are more refined applications of it through less harmful means. What if the basic concept of tearing off parts of a soul could be calmed down to making connections without going too far? Outside of my 'Hoid is the Real Villain' thread, I think he is actually a good guy and, if possible, would avoid harming someone else to acheive his goals. If possible. His personality in each world denotes someone who isn't a creep. Back to the moon sceptre, I wonder if the other backstory hints about the MaiPon are tied to it.
hoidhunter he/him Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 Depends on the origin of the moon sceptre, most likely. It is a relic because of its origin. What people think about it may be different than what it is, in Shai's time. I wonder if Feruchemy as we know it is simply a crude form of it that was discovered because it was more likely to happen. Perhaps there are more refined applications of it through less harmful means. What if the basic concept of tearing off parts of a soul could be calmed down to making connections without going too far? Outside of my 'Hoid is the Real Villain' thread, I think he is actually a good guy and, if possible, would avoid harming someone else to acheive his goals. If possible. His personality in each world denotes someone who isn't a creep. Back to the moon sceptre, I wonder if the other backstory hints about the MaiPon are tied to it. Are you by any chance confusing feruchemy with hemelurgy? I wasn't under the impression that feruchemy was very harmful to anyone... 1
hoidhunter he/him Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 No problem. I'm really curious about this moon scepter thing. there has to be something really special about it for Hoid to want it. I guess it's possible that he simply set up Shai to get caught...setting into motion her successfully forging the emperor's soul...but that doesn't jive with me. If I can ever make it to a book signing...I'm totally going to ask Brandon what Hoid wants with the moon scepter.
Windrunner he/him Posted January 9, 2015 Author Posted January 9, 2015 I already did. Brandon refused to say why, but he did confirm that Hoid wanted it and it was not just to set Shai up. 1
AerionBFII he/him Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) I agree there is a deleted scene on brandons website from The Emperors Soul: The Fool smiled. “A chance is coming your way, Shai,” he said. “A chance?” “A sign of respect, from one liar to another. It is not much—I must leave this place, and my time to arrange an opportunity for you was narrow. But you are clever; it might be enough.” “What are you talking about?” “Keep your wits sharpened,” the Fool said, turning to go. “Be careful, be keen. It has been an interesting dance, sparring with you.” I think he framed Shai so he could steal the Moon Sceptor and then helped arrange her a possible escape as a sign of respect Edited January 9, 2015 by WEZ313 1
hoidhunter he/him Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 I already did. Brandon refused to say why, but he did confirm that Hoid wanted it and it was not just to set Shai up. sweet man...now...if I can make it to one of the signings...I can ask a different question.
Elementalist he/him Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 Shai mentioned that her people used to worship carvings they made out of rocks that fell from the sky (stones, not Horneaters). I believe there is a WoB confirming that the rocks were related to the God Beyond, although I'm terrible at finding sources. If this is the case, the Moon Scepter may have been made out of these rocks and Hoid may have wanted it because of it's connection to the God Beyond. 1
Guest Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 Does everyone who takes a Shard do it eagerly? That would be important to know.
Guest Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 Oh definitely. Doesn't seem like Hoid's style though.
AerionBFII he/him Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 Im not sure if i would probably.... but over time you change don't you? IE if you worked at an animal shelter and fed the homeless then pick up Odium........
Moogle Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) If you look at someone like Ati, who was supposedly a "kindly man" (paraphrased) before taking up Ruin, it seems like taking up a Shard is an incredibly drastic change. I can't imagine doing it myself, unless there were some serious problems that needed the power. Edited January 12, 2015 by Moogle
Bort he/him Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 "I began life as a thought, a concept, words on a page. That was another thing I stole. Myself.” I wonder is this has anything to do with Forging. Perhaps Hoid is really a Creationspren who Forged themselves into existence.
Blaze1616 he/him Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 If you look at someone like Ati, who was supposedly a "kindly man" (paraphrased) before taking up Ruin, it seems like taking up a Shard is an incredibly drastic change. I can't imagine doing it myself, unless there were some serious problems that needed the power. But what about the possibility of keeping it out of worse hands? If you know you are a good person, and you have the chance to pick up a Shard, would you really pass it up given the chance that the next person who comes along could be someone worse than you? Even armed with the knowledge that I would eventually be corrupted, I'd rather pick it up myself and fight the change for as long as possible to avoid someone far more nefarious than myself picking it up.
Moogle Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 But what about the possibility of keeping it out of worse hands? If you know you are a good person, and you have the chance to pick up a Shard, would you really pass it up given the chance that the next person who comes along could be someone worse than you? Even armed with the knowledge that I would eventually be corrupted, I'd rather pick it up myself and fight the change for as long as possible to avoid someone far more nefarious than myself picking it up. It's an interesting thought, but would someone else really do more damage than me? If, say, Rayse had taken up Ruin, would there have been more destruction overall? I don't really think so. The Shard sort of completely subsumes you after a period of time. Also: this applies to 'good' Shards like Devotion as well. I still wouldn't take up Devotion, or any Shard that we've seen thus far. (Endowment might be the best option, though.) It's not just about destruction!
Guest Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 I wonder is this has anything to do with Forging. Perhaps Hoid is really a Creationspren who Forged themselves into existence. Interesting idea, but based on WoB and the Liar of Partinel fragment, Hoid didn't come from Roshar. Plus, he existed before spren, as Brandon said he was there at the shattering of Adonalsium.
Blaze1616 he/him Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 It's an interesting thought, but would someone else really do more damage than me? If, say, Rayse had taken up Ruin, would there have been more destruction overall? I don't really think so. The Shard sort of completely subsumes you after a period of time. Also: this applies to 'good' Shards like Devotion as well. I still wouldn't take up Devotion, or any Shard that we've seen thus far. (Endowment might be the best option, though.) It's not just about destruction! I think that if someone's natural personality meshes with the Shardic Intent they pick up they become incredibly powerful immediately, which is why the letters comment upon Rayse picking Odium (I think it was the letters). For Ruin, the worst case scenario is someone especially destructive. I'd still pick it up, if for no other reason than to prevent destruction for X amount of time before the Intent corrupts me. As for taking good Shards, I think I would pass, not because I don't like the intents, but because I'd rather live a normal life. If I had to choose one though it would be Endowment.
Darkness he/him Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 Interesting idea, but based on WoB and the Liar of Partinel fragment, Hoid didn't come from Roshar. Plus, he existed before spren, as Brandon said he was there at the shattering of Adonalsium. I agree that Hoid wasn't a spren, but weren't there spren before the shattering? It's been confirmed that there are adonalsium-spren. (Which is interesting in itself. Spren are commonly thought of as physical manifestations of cognitive concepts. Does this mean that someone out there is/was thinking enough about Adonalsium that Adonalsium-spren appeared? Are they still alive/are people still thinking about Adonalsium?)
Darkness he/him Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 Sorry, I don't want to derail the topic. I also think that Hoid was offered a piece of Adonalsium and turned it down. My personal pet-theory is that it's because he held Adonalsium as a whole for at least a time, and was repulsed by the idea of accepting a 'tainted' part of his former 'pretty rock'.
Turos Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 It's been confirmed that there are adonalsium-spren. O.O You don't happen to have a source link to that I can borrow, do you? I promise I will give it back! Pretty please?
Shlee Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) O.O You don't happen to have a source link to that I can borrow, do you? I promise I will give it back! Pretty please? The source link is http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1078 The text of the pertinent part is: WETLANDER Please explain what you will about Shards and Splintering and Slivers. BRANDON SANDERSON An event happened long ago which destroyed something called Adonalsium into 16 pieces. And 16 people took up that power.QUESTIONPeople?BRANDON SANDERSONI call all intelligent species people. If someone takes up the power and lets go of it, it has the effect much like a balloon that's been stretched and then the air is let out. I call that a Sliver; based off of the Lord Ruler calling himself the "Sliver of Infinity". The Lord Ruler is someone who held the power and then released it. And so, current Slivers are the Lord Ruler, Kelsier, and there may be others around who at one point held the power and let go of it. A Splinter is a term used by certain people in the cosmere for power of Adonalsium which has no person caring for it, no... no person holding it, which has attained self-awareness.WETLANDERSo is that like the mists and the Well? Are they...BRANDON SANDERSONThey are not, because they have not attained self-awareness. But, the Seons are self-aware. So, any piece, for instance there were some spren on Roshar before Honor and Cultivation got there. Those were already Splinters of Adonalsium where he had left power which attained sentience on its own. So, it can be intentional is what I am saying, does that make sense? You have seen other splinters. WETLANDERAre the highstorms related to the splintering of Honor?BRANDON SANDERSONThe highstorms are more related to the mist from Mistborn which terminology we have not discussed yet. You have seen splinters quite a bit on various planets. Edited January 15, 2015 by Shlee
Turos Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 Thanks! So you mean adonalsium-spren as in spren made from pieces of adonalsium. I thought you meant spren that are attracted to adonalsium. That would be weird, though, as technically they are adonalsium.
hoidhunter he/him Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) I found this to be a little confusing as well. so...there were spren on Roshar before adonalsium shattered. But there are not necessarily "adonalsium spren". Im not sure if i would probably.... but over time you change don't you? IE if you worked at an animal shelter and fed the homeless then pick up Odium........ pretty soon your feeding cat and dogs to homeless people...and vice versa... You would have to either be really confident in your self control...have no idea what you were getting yourself into...downright evil in the first place...or think that it was going to be temporary... "All right guys...each of us has to hold one of these things until Hoid can get back with enough cosmic superglue to put this whole stupid thing back together. How long did you say it was going to take?" (looks at Hoid) (Hoid shrugs) "Ah...I'm sure we'll be fine..." Edited January 15, 2015 by hoidhunter 1
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