Nahlion Dahlyr he/him Posted December 13, 2014 Report Share Posted December 13, 2014 After having a bit of a thought, and looking at the coppermind I've noticed some things, mostly involving Nale (or Nalan).. is he actually who he says he is? According to the coppermind, he is Darkness, he who hunted Lift and killed Ym, both who were potential radiants, then gave Szeth Nightblood. I know that Nalan hunts down people who have commited crimes, but if he is just finding people who he thinks should suffer for committing injustices, where is the talk of massive strings of murders in crime-ridden towns? It seems to me that he could be working for Odium, or something like him, to prevent the Radiants from returning in strength- but still trying to maintain the guise of Nalan. Note that I didn't throw in Szeth randomly, he could very easily be using Szeth to an end. I may be completely off, but I thought it MIGHT be relevant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RawToast225 he/him Posted December 13, 2014 Report Share Posted December 13, 2014 I've had this same thought! I really think that it could be someone who bonded with a spren, figured out which type of Radiant they were, then took on the name of Nalan because his own delusions. Then, he is going to teach Szeth how to attract a the Skybreaker spren. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinTheHerdazian he/him Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) If he did have his own spren then he killed it because of the first oath, LIFE before death but it depends on how you interpret it. But no spren would stand for killing other radiants Edited January 2, 2015 by KevinTheHerdazian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 But no spren would stand for killing other radiants Why not? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Star Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Why not? Because there wouldn't be enough people left for a good match of Super Smash Bros and/or Mario Kart. Storms, do I have to explain EVERYTHING?! Anyways, I think that this IS actually the real Nalan, though I think that Stones Unhallowed will have more definitive proof. We already know that the heralds are shadows of their former selves, and have been... twisted into less righteous personas. Keep in mind that Shallash has been destroying artwork depicting her, which is pretty much the opposite of what she should be doing, based on her attributes. So Nalan could definitely be spreading a more sinister brand of Justice, and people don't talk about it because he's probably a police officer in every major kingdom (he had the necessary paperwork for Azir), so it's not legally murder. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimiddle04 Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) I'd have to agree with Moogle. There is no reason to believe spren/Knight Orders would have many qualms with killing other Knights if they thought those Radiants were going against what the killers thought of as honorable. Syl seems to strongly dislike killing unless it's to protect. But if Shallan were trying to kill a weaker person I think Syl would support her death. As far as Pattern goes, he seems to have nothing against killing almost anyone for whatever reason Shallan feels is appropriate (but we also have no confirmation he supports killing, he hasn't been used much except to protect Shallan). And Jasnah's spren was going to let her die just to prove she was worthy, which to me indicates he didn't mind Knights dying. Again, like with Pattern, this doesn't really mean he approves of Knights battling each other but more shows he doesn't have the same affliction to killing Syl has. I think it's most likely that he is Nalan and he is hunting down those he feels deserve to be hunted most. People all over the world break laws and commit crimes. He'd have to have a way to determine who deserved his wrath. To him Lift and Ym and anyone like them deserve punishment the most. I can see two reasons he'd think this: 1. They are potential Radiants and are using their powers (or used to in Ym's case) to commit crimes. Which in his eyes is itself the worst kind of crime. 2. He is a little crazy and is punishing these new Radiants for the crimes of the old Radiants who abandoned the Spren bonded to them and almost killed an entire sentient species. The first one is the one I'd lean to, the second one is just something I feel could be possible in his mind. EDIT: Thought of a 3rd option I think is a good possibility. The people he hunts have powers others cannot compete with so he leaves regular criminals to regular authorities but goes after Criminal-Radiants like Lift because he has the ability to stop them and normal authorities don't. Edited January 2, 2015 by Mimiddle04 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser he/him Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) Interesting thoughts. I'd have to agree with Moogle. ... I think it's most likely that he is Nalan and he is hunting down those he feels deserve to be hunted most. People all over the world break laws and commit crimes. He'd have to have a way to determine who deserved his wrath. To him Lift and Ym and anyone like them deserve punishment the most. I can see two reasons he'd think this: 1. They are potential Radiants and are using their powers (or used to in Ym's case) to commit crimes. Which in his eyes is itself the worst kind of crime. 2. He is a little crazy and is punishing these new Radiants for the crimes of the old Radiants who abandoned the Spren bonded to them and almost killed an entire sentient species. ... EDIT: Thought of a 3rd option I think is a good possibility. The people he hunts have powers others cannot compete with so he leaves regular criminals to regular authorities but goes after Criminal-Radiants like Lift because he has the ability to stop them and normal authorities don't. or: 4. Exactly what he says. He needs a crime to justify his assassinations, but he really wants to kill surgebinders because he thinks they will bring a desolation. 5. He is corrupted (whether he knows it or not) and is serving Odium (one of the epigraphs suggests that there is a traitor somewhere). Edited January 2, 2015 by hoser 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvoraen Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) Also in agreement with Moogle. We don't know everything that the Nahel spren require of their bonds, but we do know that some Orders (per WoB) are okay with... what Adolin did to Sadeas, so I can't see how that suddenly excludes fellow Radiants. Secondly, Honor himself stated in the visions that the Orders had problems but were "focused" as a means of mitigating those issues, which heavily implies it's possible they could have had interfighting. Thirdly, we know from the Nohadon vision* that a Surgebinder was directly responsible for starting a war before a Desolation hit. If that isn't a means of getting people killed, including Radiants, I don't know what is. * (I've wondered if this vision took place before the inception of the Immortal Words and the foundation of the Radiants.) Edited January 2, 2015 by dvoraen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerionBFII he/him Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) I think he is Nale. He seems so well informed about everything, he has quite a few tricks up his sleeve: The mysterious reviving Fabrial he used to bring Szeth back from the dead. He new about the Larkin and their ability to suck Stormlight out from a Surgebinder and had possession of one even though they have been virtually extinct since the scourging of Aimia. He has a Shardblade and Surgebinding speed. There is also the comment he made about Jezrien drooling. I cant imagine somebody who claims to be so hung up on 'justice' to just give up and walk away and we know one of the Heralds returned after they abondoned the Oathpact and retrieved up their blade. Edited January 9, 2015 by WEZ313 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newan he/him Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 I agree with Wez. Plus Nalan was present at the feast at which Gavilar was killed. He talked with another man (probably Kalak or Ishar) about how Ash (Shallash) seemed to be getting worse. I think that each of the herald is getting worse in some different way. Jezrien is a drooling drunk, Ash is so vain she destroys any artistic work of herself, Kalak is paranoid and scared of everything, and Nale sees the law as an obstacle he has to work within rather than a method to reach justice. These probably relate to the nature of each Herald. Jezrien is supposed to be a leader, Ash is supposed to value art, Kalak is supposed to be a resolute builder, and Nalan is supposed to value justice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nisana she/her Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 I'd have to agree with Moogle. There is no reason to believe spren/Knight Orders would have many qualms with killing other Knights if they thought those Radiants were going against what the killers thought of as honorable. Syl seems to strongly dislike killing unless it's to protect. But if Shallan were trying to kill a weaker person I think Syl would support her death. As far as Pattern goes, he seems to have nothing against killing almost anyone for whatever reason Shallan feels is appropriate (but we also have no confirmation he supports killing, he hasn't been used much except to protect Shallan). And Jasnah's spren was going to let her die just to prove she was worthy, which to me indicates he didn't mind Knights dying. Again, like with Pattern, this doesn't really mean he approves of Knights battling each other but more shows he doesn't have the same affliction to killing Syl has. I think it's most likely that he is Nalan and he is hunting down those he feels deserve to be hunted most. People all over the world break laws and commit crimes. He'd have to have a way to determine who deserved his wrath. To him Lift and Ym and anyone like them deserve punishment the most. I can see two reasons he'd think this: 1. They are potential Radiants and are using their powers (or used to in Ym's case) to commit crimes. Which in his eyes is itself the worst kind of crime. 2. He is a little crazy and is punishing these new Radiants for the crimes of the old Radiants who abandoned the Spren bonded to them and almost killed an entire sentient species. The first one is the one I'd lean to, the second one is just something I feel could be possible in his mind. EDIT: Thought of a 3rd option I think is a good possibility. The people he hunts have powers others cannot compete with so he leaves regular criminals to regular authorities but goes after Criminal-Radiants like Lift because he has the ability to stop them and normal authorities don't. I think that the correct answer is 1: he doesn't destroy every potential radiant, but only the ones who commits crimes. Why not killing Seth for what he had done? Because he thinks he is worthy of being a KR, while the two he kills are not: he follows a very personal idea of justice, but I agree that he, as the other Heralds, is quite mad. Poor Taln is not the only one having some mental problem... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shlee Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 That scar of his has always made me curious. What scars a Herald?? Beyond that, I've always wondered if Honor's splintering was what made the heralds start losing it. While I agree that there are spren of some orders who would be fine with killing radiants (And the evidence that surgebinders did indeed sometimes fight one another is in the books), I have my doubts that any of the spren would be fine with someone claiming to be a Herald. I think it's likely that Nalan has just gone down a weird path. 4500 years is along time, and knowing that you left a comrade in Damnation and probably also knowing that the almighty who gave you your powers is dead....well, that can mess with your head 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) That scar of his has always made me curious. What scars a Herald?? It may be a scar from before he came a Herald. You may also be interested in Bao Zheng, who has a similar crescent-shaped mark on him and appears to have been an inspiration for Nale. It was a birthmark for Bao Zheng apparently, so maybe it's a similar thing for Nalan? Edited January 19, 2015 by Moogle 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shlee Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Huh, that's really interesting, I never knew any of that. But then I don't know much about the east in general. It's always cool to see some of the historical/cultural inspirations for things. I guess it being from before he was a herald makes sense. Jezrien was apparently at one time a king, so they had to have been "ordinary" originally it appears. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackcatw81 she/her Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 I think that each of the herald is getting worse in some different way. Jezrien is a drooling drunk, Ash is so vain she destroys any artistic work of herself, Kalak is paranoid and scared of everything, and Nale sees the law as an obstacle he has to work within rather than a method to reach justice. These probably relate to the nature of each Herald. Jezrien is supposed to be a leader, Ash is supposed to value art, Kalak is supposed to be a resolute builder, and Nalan is supposed to value justice. So.. you've found another KR.. you see? Ps: hi to all, I'll move to the presentation section.. so please excuse me if I didn't already read all other theories 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RawToast225 he/him Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Sorry, how do we know that Jezrien is a drunk and Kalak is super paranoid? Where is that in the books? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimiddle04 Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Sorry, how do we know that Jezrien is a drunk and Kalak is super paranoid? Where is that in the books? People are using the book plus other sources to piece together who the Heralds are. I believe they're referring to Jezrien being the drunk at the party during the first scene of WoK that asks Szeth if "he's seen him." And I think Kalak is one of the guys Jasnah sees talking about an abomination using "their lords blade." I don't think anything outright says anything but people have theories and strong evidence those are Radiants. One of the female radiants is probably the woman going around smashing works of art. It's actually probably the reason one of the statues at Gavilar's is missing when Szeth passes by them. She breaks statues of herself. Basically everyone we have seen that we think is a Radiant has some sort of problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newan he/him Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) Sorry, how do we know that Jezrien is a drunk and Kalak is super paranoid? Where is that in the books? Jezrien Either Kalak or Ishar Edited January 22, 2015 by Newan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 I think he's killing potential Knights Radiant not because of crimes they may have committed in the past but because of their potential to break laws in the future - specifically, the oaths. If breaking a KR oath is the worst crime you can commit then it would be a twisted sort of justice to kill people before they get the chance to break them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Star Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) I think he's killing potential Knights Radiant not because of crimes they may have committed in the past but because of their potential to break laws in the future - specifically, the oaths. If breaking a KR oath is the worst crime you can commit then it would be a twisted sort of justice to kill people before they get the chance to break them. That may be part of it, but he can only go after radiants and Amarams that have broken serious laws. Or, in some cases, are in a war. I think that the reason he sent Helaran after Amaram during the battle was because it was a legal way to kill Amaram. Amaram was fighting a war and Helaran was enlisted in the other side, so it was perfectly legal. The Geneva Conventions deem killing an enemy combatant in battle to be legal, so there's no reason that it wouldn't be on Roshar, as well. Edit: Was on my phone, couldn't type out a longer response Edited January 27, 2015 by Patrick Star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shattered he/him Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 It's the real Nale. He's killing potential Radiants because he thinks they will cause the return of the Voidbringers, which was happening anyway. He kills them for past crimes they have committed because he's obsessed with justice and lawfulness, a common trait of the Skybreakers, and needs a legal justification for killing them. The fact that the Heralds are still running around makes me wonder what exactly happened after the Oathpact was broken. And where in Damnation in Kalak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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