Incheoul Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 I think its widely believed that the Ones Above are Scadrians after they reach space. I've always wondered if First of the Sun was maybe in the same solar system though. Survival seems like a theme in Sixth of the Dusk and I remember in Hero of Ages, Ruin says something along the lines of "What did they call him? Survivor? A word of Preservation." So what If First of the Sun is just a minor shardworld that can feel some influence of Preservation's power. And since there's a lot killing and death on those islands, maybe even Ruin's. Also, a lot of the magic or powers in Sixth of the Dusk seem somewhat similar to the powers on Scadrial. The animals that can sense minds, the Aviar that can hide the thoughts from said animals, and the Aviar that can show the future kinda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skantre Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 I think the reasons we think that the Ones Above are Scadrians because they are the only ones with space travelling technology so far. However, it could be other civilizations, and the way they act doesn't feel like the Northern Scadrians that we know of But if they are indeed from Scadrial, it should be the Southern ones, as most speculated that they have metallic arts related technologies, coinciding with the devices from SotD. One important question to ask if we want to confirm if the Ones Above are Scadrians is that: Why would they want Aviars? They have Atium already, and they have coppercloud to protect their mind anyways. If magics in Cosmere really works like wavelengths, their existing abilities will suffice, why Aviars? And in regarding the Shard influencing the First of the Sun, I think that the "survival shard" from a booksigning long ago suits the magic present better. As you have mentioned, the story emphasises strongly on the theme survival, so what suits it better than magic dealing with protecting one's mind from detection and death precognition to avoid danger, with the sole purpose of surviving? Also I think that a shard with such intent will not give out much of its investiture, if not none, which resulted in a world with magic only you can encounter with rather than practicing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incheoul Posted December 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) All valid points. During a reread of Hero of Ages, that line from Ruin stood out to me and made me think of Sixth of the Dusk. I just wanted to throw my idea out there. I guess these are my attempts at refuting your points: A lot of time will have passed before they get to space travel and how the Northern or Southern Scandrians are as far as we know now, irrelevant. Just look at the changes of 341 years from Hero of Ages to Alloy of Law. Why would the Ones Above want Aviar? To utilize their powers if possible but more likely to research. Sazed was always fond of his studies but I'm sure any intelligent species would want to study what is unknown and foreign to them. A minor shardworld doesn't have a Shard on its planet but the affects can be felt from other planets nearby. Odium for example, isn't actually on Roshar if I recall correctly. Odium's power can definitely be felt in the form of Desolations and what not on Roshar though. Edited December 9, 2014 by Incheoul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skantre Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) Makes sense, that Sazed being fond of doing researches, and the Ones above could definitely be agents of Harmony. However, few more questions are raised if we theorize the Ones Above being related to Harmony. Thousands of years must have past for Scadrial to have reached FTL technology level. At the meanwhile, Harmony's sentience must also have been expanding and understanding the Cosmere. Why would it take so long for Harmony to do research on powers that are already more or less available before its ascension, or in other words, primitive? I believe that we can consider the Ones Above have hidden agendas, if not malicious. We can be almost certain that the Ones Above will take the power of Aviars for themselves, which is definitely not the intention of Harmony. Harmony have used Kandras as his agents, and they are way subtle and efficient that sending people in spaceships. Why FTL while you can worldhop? And in regarding the Shard in presence, I'm just picking the one that feels most like it, and giving the possible reasons for having no practicable magics. Edited December 9, 2014 by jclt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geekritique Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Did we ever find out what was up with that machine at the end? What it's purpose entailed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze1616 Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Remember that Sazed will eventually be bound to the intent of his Shards, and being polar opposites, he will be unable to do anything at all but watch. If the Ones Above are Scadrians, I would think that enough time should have passed that Harmony will be unable to interact anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incheoul Posted December 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Good point, maybe his followers will act in his behalf or maybe people will just genuinely be curious enough to warrant interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Remember that Sazed will eventually be bound to the intent of his Shards, and being polar opposites, he will be unable to do anything at all but watch. If the Ones Above are Scadrians, I would think that enough time should have passed that Harmony will be unable to interact anymore. That's not precisely true, the exact WoB says that Sazed will have great difficulty acting, not that he will be completely unable to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze1616 Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) That's not precisely true, the exact WoB says that Sazed will have great difficulty acting, not that he will be completely unable to. Mmm, thank you for the clarification. I feel like I've read somewhere in which it was stated he'd be unable to act, but I can't seem to find it after searching for over an hour. Perhaps I was just interpreting the WoB you link to as the "very difficult" implying nigh impossible. Thanks again. Edited December 9, 2014 by Blaze1616 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 Keep in mind, it was as difficult as it was ever gonna get for Preservation to destroy himself, and he was still able to sacrifice the vast majority of his own mind. Evidence shows that Shards can choose to act opposite to their Intents, it simply has to be for something of superlative importance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asperity Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 Thousands of years must have past for Scadrial to have reached FTL technology level. Depends on where you begin counting time. If you mean from say, the beginning of the first Mistborn trilogy, then it certainly won't take "thousands" of years to achieve space travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RawToast225 Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 What if the people beyond are from Sel? The events there were first, they are exactly the kind of people that would want to take advantage of others, and the Shard That seems to be dominant everywhere but in Elantris is Dominion. To me, it makes perfect sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incheoul Posted December 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 If the ones above we're under the influence of dominion, wouldn't they just conquer instead of waiting for their planet to be at a certain technology level to interact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twenty@20 Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 Since Dominion is splintered, I doubt it has hardly any influence. Of course that doesn't rule out the people from Sel as the Ones Above- just that they are not acting under influence of the local splintered shards there. Are we sure about the time line of the events on First of the Sun, as in how long after Elantris or 1st Mistborn trilogy do the events take place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incheoul Posted December 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 There's a WoB that says its the most "future" of the books or something. Pretty much, it's currently the latest one chronologically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skantre Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 So it's basically a moot to discuss which world the Ones Above come from as it could basically be anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incheoul Posted December 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 By that logic, we wouldn't have much to discuss about anything. My main point however was that I think First of the Sun is in the same solar system as Scadrial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze1616 Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) So it's basically a moot to discuss which world the Ones Above come from as it could basically be anyone. Specifically someone we have met given his currently published works, according to a WoB from the Orem signing. Source is post #46 Editted to fix link thanks to Weiry! Edited December 10, 2014 by Blaze1616 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 Specifically someone we have met given his currently published works, according to a WoB from the Orem signing. Source is post #46 We actually knew this long before that. (and FYI that link won't work-- well it will get you to the right page but not the right post specifically. You'd need to click on the post number which will make a pop up with a link, or you can right click it and copy link location - http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/20500-orem-library-signing-on-december-6/page-3#entry204063) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze1616 Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 We actually knew this long before that. (and FYI that link won't work-- well it will get you to the right page but not the right post specifically. You'd need to click on the post number which will make a pop up with a link, or you can right click it and copy link location - http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/20500-orem-library-signing-on-december-6/page-3#entry204063) I noticed that WoB during a search minutes after I posted that. And HAHA! Awesome. I was wondering why that wasn't working. Perfect, and thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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