Taln replaced El

[Hearthspren]

Currently re-reading Wind and Truth. 

First off, do we know whether or not El is human or singer? If he is a human fused, is it possible that he was the one Taln had to replace in the Oathpact? I'm just wondering if the timing of Jezrien mentioning that he killed El is significant with it happening right before the Oathpact was formed.

Sorry if this has been discussed before, I just made this account.

[Aeoryi she/her]

El seems to regard Jezrien as a good friend of his too, which is fitting. I think you might be onto something.

[Master_Moridin he/him]

4 hours ago, Hearthspren said:

Currently re-reading Wind and Truth. 

First off, do we know whether or not El is human or singer? If he is a human fused, is it possible that he was the one Taln had to replace in the Oathpact? I'm just wondering if the timing of Jezrien mentioning that he killed El is significant with it happening right before the Oathpact was formed.

Sorry if this has been discussed before, I just made this account.

Wit was the one they initially offered the position to, but he turned it down.

[Hearthspren]

 

6 hours ago, Master_Moridin said:

Wit was the one they initially offered the position to, but he turned it down.

Do we know if Wit was the ONLY other person offered the position? Wit was never going to join the Oathpact, and I don't think he would mislead the other Heralds into thinking that he was going to join them. What if they asked Wit one last time if he would do it out of desperation after Jezrien killed El?

Edited May 23 by Hearthspren

[Frustration]

El is a singer, he has the carapace and had the rhythms

[Hearthspren]

32 minutes ago, Frustration said:

El is a singer, he has the carapace and had the rhythms

Has this been confirmed? He removes the singer carapace whenever he returns. Maybe his original body was human before he became fused, and he doesn't like the carapace.

El was stripped of being able to hear the rhythms by Odium. While rare, humans are capable of hearing the rhythms so that doesn't necessarily mean that he's a singer.

Edited May 23 by Hearthspren

[Frustration]

9 minutes ago, Hearthspren said:

Has this been confirmed? 

Yes, especially as Brandon thought about Elodi being El, but decided the timeline didn't match up.

Spoiler

Paleo

This comes from the Staff of the Coppermind. In the Spiritual Realm visions, we meet a man by the name of Elodi. Is this the modern day [El], as he was in his pre-Fused form, or is this somebody else?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO!

Karen Ahlstrom

(provided in an email exchange with Argent)

Elodi is not the same person as El. The timeline didn't match up. Brandon says he RAFOed it because he couldn’t remember the right answer in that moment. He knew we had talked about it and wasn’t certain what we had decided.

Shardcast Interview (May 25, 2025)

 

11 minutes ago, Hearthspren said:

He removes the singer carapace whenever he returns. Maybe his original body was human before he became fused, and he doesn't like the carapace.

He replaces it with metal in the same shape and pattern.

12 minutes ago, Hearthspren said:

El was stripped of being able to hear the rhythms by Odium. While rare, humans are capable of hearing the rhythms so that doesn't necessarily mean that he's a singer.

On the contrary, while some humans have shown a limited ability to hear the rhythms, without external aids these are only temporary events.

[Hearthspren]

27 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Yes, especially as Brandon thought about Elodi being El, but decided the timeline didn't match up.

Fair enough. I still find it extremely odd that he removes his carapace, even if he replaces it with metal in the same pattern.

Would being a Singer disqualify him from being a part of the original plan for the Oathpact? Odium stripped him of his rhythms because he was a human sympathizer. What if he was originally going to side with his friend Jezrien before backing out?

[Frustration]

33 minutes ago, Hearthspren said:

Would being a Singer disqualify him from being a part of the original plan for the Oathpact? Odium stripped him of his rhythms because he was a human sympathizer. What if he was originally going to side with his friend Jezrien before backing out?

Then he probably wouldn't have been a fused in the first place.

[Hearthspren]

37 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Then he probably wouldn't have been a fused in the first place.

That's not true. Becoming fused instead of a herald would be picking a side.

[Frustration]

11 minutes ago, Hearthspren said:

That's not true. Becoming fused instead of a herald would be picking a side.

Yes, but Rayse would have been unlikely to offer fusedhood to him, unless he was zealously loyal to Odium. Only 4,000 fused out of the possible millions that were alive at the time, implies a high level of selection.

[Hearthspren]

33 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Yes, but Rayse would have been unlikely to offer fusedhood to him, unless he was zealously loyal to Odium. Only 4,000 fused out of the possible millions that were alive at the time, implies a high level of selection.

I think Rayse would make an exception for someone of El's caliber. Especially if it meant keeping him away from Tanavast. And history tells us that El was not zealously loyal to Odium anyway.

[earthexile]

I think El isn't a human, because of the way he talks about them. His musings illustrate Us Singers and Those Humans in contrast. He's not just without rhythms, he's had them removed.