Planetary Alignments

[Jult]

Sorry in advanced to the astrophysicists who thought this was going to be a science discussion. It's a political one. Sort of..

The Secret Projects, especially Isles of the Emberdark have made it pretty clear that there is a Cosmere-wide war in the future that seems to primarily be Roshar vs Scadrial. And, if Drominad is any indicator, participation is not optional... Unless you have a giant anti-Investiture deterrent. 

So, I'd like to take some guesses at which planets in the Cosmere have (whether willingly or otherwise) joined Team Scadrial or Team Roshar. Mostly just on vibes. But I think it could lead to some fun discussion or maybe people pointing out connections between planets that I forgot/never knew.

Team Scadrial

Canticle - There were Scadrian scientists stationed here and they had alliances with the Cinder King. It's a little unclear how things will proceed after Zellion's intervention, but Roshar doesn't seem to have any foothold here at all.

Dhatri - Kelsier tells Sazed they would make a good ally in TLM. We see Prasanva working for Kelsier already. And an Aetherbound assisted the Scadirans in IotE.

Lumar - This one could kind of go either way. There are some hints of Scadrian culture throughout (though I'd point to the Iriali for that rather than true Scadrians). Also, there's a Kandra hanging out there. I'd say Lumar is at least more likely to be claimed by Scadrial, since there seems to be some method of traveling there from Scadrial.

Mythos - We know almost nothing about Mythos. But Kelsier said it would maybe be a potential ally to Scadrial. Simply by the logic of "the Scadrians got there first", I'm putting them on Team Scadrial.

Komashi - I admit that it's a tenuous connection. But Hoid leaves Komashi via the "Iron Seven Waystation". That sounds Scadrian to me.  

Team Roshar

Grand Apparatus - I didn't get the impression that the Grand Apparatus was under anyone's control. But we know the Sleepless have been agreeable towards Rosharans before and the Scadrians really seem to fear them.

Nalthis - Another tricky one. We know there are Kandra active on Nalthis. And that Edgli is not an Odium fan. But I think the Five Scholars' history with Roshar probably puts Nalthis in Roshar's corner. Especially since Edgli doesn't really seem to get directly involved in Nalthian politics.

Sel - Based on Dalinar's visions, Elantris is going to be a future battleground for Roshar. I think they'll be forcibly conquering Sel to bring it under their banner. Plus, I'm not sure how much influence the Ire have on Sel, but they've got to be pretty sore towards Scadrial in general after Mistborn: Secret History.

Threnody - Ehh... This should probably be in the Undecided section below. But Scadrial's hostile treatment of Nazh in IotE makes me want to give this one to Roshar. 

Undecided

Bjendal - We know virtually nothing about this place other than it's a "primary system" and, as of TLM, the Ghostbloods can't visit their without extreme danger.

First of the Sun - They told both sides to get lost.

Obrodai - Another obscure one. Autonomy has an Avatar there. She does hate Harmony. And she's allied with a Vessel of Odium before. But I don't think she'll be open to a similar arrangement with Retribution.

Taldain - Another Autonomy planet (the main one). It sounded like they had problems of their own during IotE. Not sure how they are avoiding the war. Perhaps they're just advanced enough to stand as a third-party. Starling did mention that they kill Sleepless on sight on Taldain. So, I doubt they're friends of Roshar. And it's pretty clear from Mistborn Era 2 that they wouldn't really be pro-Scadrial either.

Utol - Tempted to give this one to Scadrial since I gave Komashi to them. But also I think it'd be neat to see Roshar take the second planet in this two-planet system. Either way there's almost no evidence in either direction.

Vax - The only concrete thing I know about Vax is that it exists.

Yolen - I somehow know less about Yolen's current state than Vax's. Because I'm not certain that Yolen does still exist.

[Schizoposting]

I think the main problem with your list is that you assume that there are only two powers, and everyone must be under the dominion of one or the other. This is unrealistic—even at the height of the Cold War, there were still major independent powers, that pursued their own interests. Today this is even more the case. So, we should expect something similar in the Cosmere: Sel, Nalathis, Threnody, Dhatri, Taldian, Yolen, etc., all probably constitute their own poles. They may be closer aligned to Roshar, or to Scadrial, but they aren't dominated by them and are capable of independent action.

[Qianweilian He/him]

59 minutes ago, Jult said:

The Secret Projects, especially Isles of the Emberdark have made it pretty clear that there is a Cosmere-wide war in the future that seems to primarily be Roshar vs Scadrial. And, if Drominad is any indicator, participation is not optional... Unless you have a giant anti-Investiture deterrent. 

I actually doubt this. I suspect any conflict will be less a war and more a twilight struggle—a cold war between rivals, at least when shown in the books. Brandon has said he is not (right now) writing books during these campaigns.

Quote

Questioner

We get some indications as we go further in time, in the cosmere, that this is this idea of stalemate between the different worlds.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, between some of the worlds. There's bit of a giant galactic cold war going on.

Questioner

So as that happens, I'm curious, in your mind, is that being more driven by the people of the worlds and their manipulations of the powers going on? Or is this an inter-Shard thing?

Brandon Sanderson

I'm going to say this is more towards the Shards than the people, but both are involved. And there are flare-ups that are actual full-on conflicts, but I am writing books in periods where that isn't happening because I don't want to deal with that too much with that yet. If that makes sense.

Worldcon 2025 (Aug. 16, 2025)

 

1 hour ago, Jult said:

And an Aetherbound assisted the Scadirans in IotE.

I'd like to caveat that Starling seemed shocked that the Aetherbound was working with the Malwish. It clearly wasn't the usual state of affairs, and I don't know if we can infer an alignment from this.

1 hour ago, Jult said:

Lumar - This one could kind of go either way. There are some hints of Scadrian culture throughout (though I'd point to the Iriali for that rather than true Scadrians). Also, there's a Kandra hanging out there. I'd say Lumar is at least more likely to be claimed by Scadrial, since there seems to be some method of traveling there from Scadrial.

I doubt Lumar would actually be that important, other than a source of spores. Given that Xisis spent time there, I suspect that it may be more of a neutral planet, as Xisis isn't strongly aligned to one side.

1 hour ago, Jult said:

Mythos - We know almost nothing about Mythos. But Kelsier said it would maybe be a potential ally to Scadrial. Simply by the logic of "the Scadrians got there first", I'm putting them on Team Scadrial.

I'd like to note that this wasn't Kelsier's first choice, and may be more of a far fetched possibility than an actualized alliance.

Quote

There are potential allies out there. Moonlight's world, perhaps. Or the land of the aethers. Hell, maybe even Mythos.

1 hour ago, Jult said:

Grand Apparatus - I didn't get the impression that the Grand Apparatus was under anyone's control. But we know the Sleepless have been agreeable towards Rosharans before and the Scadrians really seem to fear them.

I don't think we know enough to infer a side.

1 hour ago, Jult said:

Nalthis - Another tricky one. We know there are Kandra active on Nalthis. And that Edgli is not an Odium fan. But I think the Five Scholars' history with Roshar probably puts Nalthis in Roshar's corner. Especially since Edgli doesn't really seem to get directly involved in Nalthian politics.

Honestly, I don't think we know enough outside of Hallendren. Nalthis is powerful enough I suspect they may be a neutral power.

1 hour ago, Jult said:

Sel - Based on Dalinar's visions, Elantris is going to be a future battleground for Roshar. I think they'll be forcibly conquering Sel to bring it under their banner. Plus, I'm not sure how much influence the Ire have on Sel, but they've got to be pretty sore towards Scadrial in general after Mistborn: Secret History.

We know from WoB that Autonomy is interfering on Sel, so that opens the possibility for a Scadrian alliance. Too early to be seen without Elantris 2. Also, likely to be neutral due to their power.

Quote

strican

In The Lost Metal, it mentions Autonomy having avatars in other worlds. In Shu-Dereth on Sel, Jaddeth speaks directly to Wyrn, who then propagates his will down the hierarchy-

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

strican

Within the religion, ambition is rewarded, but only if it aligns with the orders of the hierarchy. That sounds similar to the philosophy used in the Set, but replacing Jaddeth with Trell. Is Jaddeth an avatar of Autonomy?

Brandon Sanderson

*chuckles and points at screen in very satisfied way* RAFO. You're a very smart person.

It's [pronounced] "Yaddeth", by the way. That is also one of the Y-J's. ...

So, I will say this. Here's what I'll canonize. There is something happening, and the people there legitimately believe, and have reason to believe, that their god is going to return. And I have said before, many times, that Book 2 of Elantris begins with the return of their god. 'Cause they've said "God can't come back until everybody converts". But they've found a loophole. They're like "well, except those heretics in Elantris. And also that other little place, that tiny little region that's over in the mountains, where they talk about roses, they don't count either. Because they're, um, not actually part of the planet." Um, so. So that's something to look forward to, if I ever get around to writing Dakhor, is the return of Jaddeth, the god of [Shu-Dereth].

YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022)

 

1 hour ago, Jult said:

Threnody - Ehh... This should probably be in the Undecided section below. But Scadrial's hostile treatment of Nazh in IotE makes me want to give this one to Roshar. 

You're forgetting the Night Brigade. The existence of such a powerful and feared force as mercenaries causes me to doubt Threnody's alignment to one side.

1 hour ago, Jult said:

Yolen - I somehow know less about Yolen's current state than Vax's. Because I'm not certain that Yolen does still exist.

Yolen's existence is confirmed in IoTE. The perpendicularity on Silverlight leads to, among other places, Yolen.

8 minutes ago, Schizoposting said:

I think the main problem with your list is that you assume that there are only two powers, and everyone must be under the dominion of one or the other. This is unrealistic—even at the height of the Cold War, there were still major independent powers, that pursued their own interests. Today this is even more the case. So, we should expect something similar in the Cosmere: Sel, Nalathis, Threnody, Dhatri, Taldian, Yolen, etc., all probably constitute their own poles. They may be closer aligned to Roshar, or to Scadrial, but they aren't dominated by them and are capable of independent action.

Generally agree.

[Frustration]

I've been thinking abput making a similar post for some time, though I had a different interpretation.

To me it looked more like there is a multi-polar order to the cosmere. I feel if it was just two of them there would be an open war, not just occasional skirmishes unless both sides had the power to potentially wipe the other out.

I'm also not convinced that several of these planets fully united, as the Cinderking on Canticle asks why no one conquered all of Roshar, and both Northern and Southern Scadrian factions exist.

I think that the primary factions are from Roahar, Scadrial, Sel, Dharti, Threnody, Yolen, and Taldain. With the possibility of other smaller factions being in there.

I think of all of these the most likely multi-world alliance would be Nalthis and Roahar, as they have close proximity and a history of contact, as well as a dramatic difference in power, but even that's not certain.

[Jult]

18 minutes ago, Schizoposting said:

I think the main problem with your list is that you assume that there are only two powers, and everyone must be under the dominion of one or the other. This is unrealistic—even at the height of the Cold War, there were still major independent powers, that pursued their own interests. Today this is even more the case. So, we should expect something similar in the Cosmere: Sel, Nalathis, Threnody, Dhatri, Taldian, Yolen, etc., all probably constitute their own poles. They may be closer aligned to Roshar, or to Scadrial, but they aren't dominated by them and are capable of independent action.

True yeah I am for sure oversimplifying for the sake of having only 3 groups. And, in most cases, I don't imagine planets being completely dominated. But the idea of truly neutral planets feels unlikely to me. Nalthis, for example, may not officially ally with or swear allegiance to either faction. But I think they'll at least be rooting for one side over the other. For the planets that have the freedom to choose, I'm still interested in knowing who they consider the lesser of two evils. I wouldn't call these full predictions - more of a though exercise of: if these planets had to pick a side, who would they pick?

18 minutes ago, Qianweilian said:

Brandon has said he is not (right now) writing books during these campaigns.

I think "right now" are the key words there. It'd feel a bit anti-climactic (to me) from a writing point of view to keep hinting at an approaching conflict and then never have one.

21 minutes ago, Qianweilian said:

We know from WoB that Autonomy is interfering on Sel, so that opens the possibility for a Scadrian alliance.

So, I did know about Jaddeth. I just wasn't sure how to factor him into things. You think Autonomy would be pro-Scadrial?

27 minutes ago, Qianweilian said:

You're forgetting the Night Brigade. The existence of such a powerful and feared force as mercenaries causes me to doubt Threnody's alignment to one side.

I did 100% forget about the Night Brigade. Yeah Threnody is going back in the Undecided column.

31 minutes ago, Qianweilian said:

Yolen's existence is confirmed in IoTE. The perpendicularity on Silverlight leads to, among other places, Yolen.

Right. I can't believe I didn't make a note about that. I still don't think I can place them on either side though. They probably have the best chance at neutrality.

[Qianweilian He/him]

3 minutes ago, Jult said:

So, I did know about Jaddeth. I just wasn't sure how to factor him into things. You think Autonomy would be pro-Scadrial?

Nah, I'm saying that depending on how the debacle with Autonomy goes, fighting Autonomy may push them to Scadrial. Or, if Autonomy succeeds, they'll be more Taldain aligned. Sel's alignment is up in the air, but I suspect it may be split (prob between Fjordell and Elantris & co.)

8 minutes ago, Frustration said:

To me it looked more like there is a multi-polar order to the cosmere.

I agree. In general, the Cosmere seems to be less interconnected than our world (which makes sense, as we're only a planet), with many more regional powers.

9 minutes ago, Frustration said:

I feel if it was just two of them there would be an open war, not just occasional skirmishes unless both sides had the power to potentially wipe the other out.

I suspect mutually assured destruction will exist given some recent technological developments. Both anti-light and harmonium bombs seem to be nuclear analogues and, with more development, could potentially develop into weapons necessary for MAD.

But, just because MAD exists doesn't preclude conflict. India and Pakistan, both nuclear powers, have gotten into several wars since they both obtained nuclear weapons, but I do think that it makes a total war less likely.

[Frustration]

46 minutes ago, Qianweilian said:

I suspect mutually assured destruction will exist given some recent technological developments. Both anti-light and harmonium bombs seem to be nuclear analogues and, with more development, could potentially develop into weapons necessary for MAD.

Given the sheer size of the cosmere at that point mere nuclear, or even anti-investiture weapons aren't enough for MAD to function anymore. Both sides have multiple planets, and the distances involved between them would make attacking en mass difficult.

I was thinking more like Dawnshards, but we know where two of them are at that point, with the possibility of Change still being in hiding, so that's basically an impossibility for both sides to have one.

49 minutes ago, Qianweilian said:

But, just because MAD exists doesn't preclude conflict. India and Pakistan, both nuclear powers, have gotten into several wars since they both obtained nuclear weapons, but I do think that it makes a total war less likely.

Skirmishes between the two of them, but not a full conflict.

[Jult]

28 minutes ago, Qianweilian said:

Nah, I'm saying that depending on how the debacle with Autonomy goes, fighting Autonomy may push them to Scadrial. Or, if Autonomy succeeds, they'll be more Taldain aligned. Sel's alignment is up in the air, but I suspect it may be split (prob between Fjordell and Elantris & co.)

That makes much more sense. I was afraid I'd missed something.

40 minutes ago, Frustration said:

I'm also not convinced that several of these planets fully united, as the Cinderking on Canticle asks why no one conquered all of Roshar, and both Northern and Southern Scadrian factions exist.

Interesting. I had thought a bit about Scadrial being divided between the North and South, but for some reason I sort of just imagined most planets reaching a point of unification once a Cosmere-level threat existed. Keeping them divided could be really interesting, albeit confusing. I'm not sure I have the initiative to put together a list of alliances by nation instead of planet. But that might be the better approach.

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

I think that the primary factions are from Roshar, Scadrial, Sel, Dharti, Threnody, Yolen, and Taldain. With the possibility of other smaller factions being in there.

With multiple factions from some of these planets, I would guess? Scadrial, Roshar, and Sel are all currently split into at least 2 factions apiece. Taldain seems split on the light and dark sides. If Dragonsteel Prime is any reflection of canon Yolen, I'd imagine separate human and Sho Del factions. And who knows what's up with Dhatri?

[Qianweilian He/him]

20 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Given the sheer size of the cosmere at that point mere nuclear, or even anti-investiture weapons aren't enough for MAD to function anymore. Both sides have multiple planets, and the distances involved between them would make attacking en mass difficult.

I mean, that's a decent point. I would argue that only a single planet is really needed for MAD, but it's true it is much less effective.(e.g. having the capability to destroy the Soviet Union, but not the entire Warsaw Pact)

23 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Skirmishes between the two of them, but not a full conflict.

"Wars" was a bit of an exaggeration, but what I was trying to say is that I doubted that conflict would escalate past such a skirmish.

8 minutes ago, Jult said:

I sort of just imagined most planets reaching a point of unification once a Cosmere-level threat existed.

I mean, you have to consider what would happen on our planet if the existence of other populated planets in a cold war existed. Even if there was a straight up invasion, the only really unified governance that could happen is a UN military command. In a scenario similar to the Cosmere, many countries, and even political parties, would favor opposing sides.

But yes, it does seem like the general trend is towards consolidation.

11 minutes ago, Jult said:

Taldain seems split on the light and dark sides.

For this, I might actually assume that they unify (at least externally). Afaik, Taldain is mentioned as an entity, and it's probable that the entire planet is under Autonomy's influence. Unlike Endowment, Bavadin is very prone to meddling.

[Jult]

2 minutes ago, Qianweilian said:

I mean, you have to consider what would happen on our planet if the existence of other populated planets in a cold war existed. Even if there was a straight up invasion, the only really unified governance that could happen is a UN military command. In a scenario similar to the Cosmere, many countries, and even political parties, would favor opposing sides.

I'm not sure a real-world example would translate well to the Cosmere. Most of these planets only have far less governing bodies than Earth. Take Sel. As far as we know, it's 3 Empires and 2 independent nations. Getting 5 political powers to unify against say, Retribution knocking at their door, feels pretty within reach.

42 minutes ago, Qianweilian said:

But yes, it does seem like the general trend is towards consolidation.

It kind of has to be for the sake of the story. Even Roshar's 31 nations were essentially boiled down to 2 main alliances by the end of WaT. The average reader won't keep track of that many moving parts. I swear there's a WoB somewhere where Brandon talks about simplifying the Alethi government by removing most of the highprinces for a similar reason, but maybe I just imagined it because I cannot find it.

I could see 2-3 factions per planet, but it starts getting too complicated beyond that.

[Qianweilian He/him]

On 5/18/2026 at 3:50 PM, Jult said:

I swear there's a WoB somewhere where Brandon talks about simplifying the Alethi government by removing most of the highprinces for a similar reason, but maybe I just imagined it because I cannot find it.

It may be one of the unsearchable ones.