The Return of Dawn

[PanLin they/he]

2 minutes ago, HoidProbablyDidIt said:

“Here in this world I found perfection, a relic of the being I had slain for his own good. Roshar had been grown entirely from equations, as a grand testament to the divine nature of mathematics—a celebration of the intimate relationship between song, numbers, and art.

 

There was Honor in this.”

6 minutes ago, HoidProbablyDidIt said:

Cyan, magenta, yellow, she thought, remembering her color theory lessons.

Those are genuinely compelling quotes and arguments, but I don't think I'm quite on board considering what we know (though limited) about Virtuosity.

Unless yellow and black are represented by humans with Virtuosity's Investiture and the nightmares/shroud. Or maybe Hion lines are like a waste by-product, where the yellow is consumed and used, leaving only the cyan and magenta to leak out. I think that one makes more sense tbh, considering how important duality is on Komashi—the spirits always split into two parts, so maybe there's actually a triality, and the yellow part represents the Investiture that's used up, which is why we don't see it.

Maybe it's simply to do with how Virtuosity splintered herself.

 

6 minutes ago, HoidProbablyDidIt said:

I also wouldn’t put it past Cultivation to help conceal another shard on Roshar, she’s sneaky like that.

100% agree, though that doesn't point to Viruosity anymore than any other Shard. Who knows what that sneaky dragon is up to.

Virtuosity's influence would work nicely with Cryptics and Lightweavers (like you mentioned above about their potential relationship with Dawn/Light), but I think Reason's influence could be broader—Dustbringers, Edgedancers, Truthwatchers, Lightweavers and Elsecallers all deal with truth/understanding, and if Jasnah is anything to go by for the personality traits of Elsecallers, then that Order feels extremely Reason-coded.

 

15 minutes ago, HoidProbablyDidIt said:

Food for thought, it’s fun spinning possibilities with a fellow theorist. 

It absolutely is, I love this stuff 

 

16 minutes ago, HoidProbablyDidIt said:

Along your line of Mistspren/Ashspren, I read on one of these forums an observation made. If there were going to be two spren representing Scadrial, (Leras and Ati) could there be a better representation for those two? Mistspren even wear a mask exactly like the Malwish. 

That does sound compelling, but then by the same logic we can say that Reachers represent Scadrial because they're made of metal 

 

18 minutes ago, HoidProbablyDidIt said:

Is it possible a large group of people from Scadrial, at some point in the past, found their way to Roshar and their thoughts/perceptions influenced those two sprens forms?

Definitely a fun possibility. 

But yes, this. Definitely possible. I wonder if we can extrapolate a Shard for each type of Radiant spren, where each one was inspired by a Shard based on Honor's perception of them, for example:

• Reachers: Preservation
• Mistspren: Ruin / Endowment
• Ashspren: Endowment / Ruin
• Honorspren: Honor
• Cultivationspren: Cultivation
• Cryptics: Virtuosity

[HoidProbablyDidIt]

2 hours ago, PanLin said:

Those are genuinely compelling quotes and arguments, but I don't think I'm quite on board considering what we know (though limited) about Virtuosity.

Unless yellow and black are represented by humans with Virtuosity's Investiture and the nightmares/shroud. Or maybe Hion lines are like a waste by-product, where the yellow is consumed and used, leaving only the cyan and magenta to leak out. I think that one makes more sense tbh, considering how important duality is on Komashi—the spirits always split into two parts, so maybe there's actually a triality, and the yellow part represents the Investiture that's used up, which is why we don't see it.

Maybe it's simply to do with how Virtuosity splintered herself.

 

100% agree, though that doesn't point to Viruosity anymore than any other Shard. Who knows what that sneaky dragon is up to.

Virtuosity's influence would work nicely with Cryptics and Lightweavers (like you mentioned above about their potential relationship with Dawn/Light), but I think Reason's influence could be broader—Dustbringers, Edgedancers, Truthwatchers, Lightweavers and Elsecallers all deal with truth/understanding, and if Jasnah is anything to go by for the personality traits of Elsecallers, then that Order feels extremely Reason-coded.

 

It absolutely is, I love this stuff 

 

That does sound compelling, but then by the same logic we can say that Reachers represent Scadrial because they're made of metal 

 

But yes, this. Definitely possible. I wonder if we can extrapolate a Shard for each type of Radiant spren, where each one was inspired by a Shard based on Honor's perception of them, for example:

• Reachers: Preservation
• Mistspren: Ruin / Endowment
• Ashspren: Endowment / Ruin
• Honorspren: Honor
• Cultivationspren: Cultivation
• Cryptics: Virtuosity

Thanks for the response and the insights! As to the colors Shallan saw in the vision, the presence of (and B$’ precise description) magenta and cyan is too specific to be a coincidence based on his comments. I’m not sure where black comes into the picture you mentioned? We don’t really know a lot about Virtuosity or the specifics of the nature of that shard. I can say to the yellow being present, I found this comment by B$:

 

Spoiler

Kingdaughter613

The hion colors are two of the inks used in printers, magenta and cyan.

Brandon Sanderson

They are.

Kingdaughter613

Was this intentional?

Brandon Sanderson

 Yes.

Kingdaughter613

If so, what happened to yellow?

Brandon Sanderson

Good question. RAFO.

Secret Project #3 Reveal and Livestream (March 22, 2022)

Hmmm, the plot thickens my friend.

There are too many ‘coincidences’ for something Virtuosity related to not be going on with Roshar for me.

I see your point with Reason and logic also being major characteristic traits of many radiant spren. We can’t ignore that as many times as it’s mentioned. Like Virtuosity, we know so little about Reason.  You may be onto something. 

I still stand by a fourth primeval steward being present on Roshar with the OP.  The evidence is compelling for a Dawn/Light/Truth presence.  I’m speculating on how it (or Virtuosity) might have influenced the formation/ creation of spren. 

I’ve always found it curious that the high storm is composed primarily of wind, darkness, earth in the form of crem in the rain, and lightning/thunder; all of which brings life and renewal to the planet. 

I love your idea of H + C having potentially paid tribute to the other shard vessels in the physical forms of many spren. That would be a fun nod. 

I would like to point out a physical connection between Scadrial and Roshar which corroborates there was a group from Scadrial who fled to Roshar in the past…

WaT chapter 75:

Spoiler

“Today Szeth prayed, bowing before a brilliant stone: two feet across with a crystal vein running through the center. It opened at one side like a mouth, the crystal forming teeth. The spren of this stone certainly seemed an ostentatious type.

“Spren,” he whispered. “In wisdom, please, guide me.”

Every important moment in his life had involved a stone, hadn’t it? Was this one looking back, as he gazed upon it? Hesitant, he reached out and put his hand on it, feeling the grain of the surface, jutting with little bits of clear crystal. Still such a strange sensation, like the skin of some beast.

For a moment he felt … memories. As if … this stone had come from another place, and remembered being carried … with a group of terrified people …”

And for comparison to the description of Atium crystal geode on Scadrial, I submit The Final Empire Chapter 32:

Spoiler

”At the direct middle of the circular pattern, the crystals curved inward, following a hollow pocket in the wall. Here the crystals grew long, each one having a jagged, sharp edge. Like teeth lining the maw of a stone beast.”

The similarity of descriptions by B$ is too identical to be a coincidence. Demonstrates physical proof a group of people fled Scadrial at some point in the past to Roshar with an Atium crystal geode, giving an explanation to the presence of Mistspren and Ashspren.