Apple TV just bailed an hour ago. They won't be doing a series or movie...

[Schizoposting]

38 minutes ago, Frustration said:

It might share the same name, but it will be fundamentally a different fandom altogether.

I think that this would only apply to casual viewers—I can't imagine hardcore Cosmere fans never reading the books, even if they were introduced to it via film/television. If nothing else, all the lore will be in the former.

Personally, I'm agnostic on the issue, but worst comes to worst, you can just ignore them.

[Qianweilian He/him]

9 hours ago, Frustration said:

An example would be "Why didn't they fly the Eagles to Mordor?" That's probably the most common thing noted about LotR, and it's entirely the movies' fault. The books explain clearly that the Fellowship will only succeed through stealth. Giant eagles are not sneaky.

That's not even a movie problem, it doesn't even make sense given the movies. The ring is portrayed as incredibly corrupting, to the point which Faramir (in the movie) originally takes the hobbits to Osgiliath. Not to even mention the Nazgûl and their mounts. 

9 hours ago, Frustration said:

It might share the same name, but it will be fundamentally a different fandom altogether.

I disagree. The Cosmere fandom is fairly centralized—the Shard runs half of everything online. Any movie watchers will probably get redirected to the Shard, to which they'll meet all the most zealous book readers. They'll either assimilate or leave. The most separate fandom we might get is a couple of tiny reddit communities and some youtube channels. I don't think a separate fandom will really exist, unless they are massively successful.

17 hours ago, Frustration said:

5. I don't want the community swamped with movie fans who think they are somehow deserving of fan status without reading the books. I'm already fed up with the Cosmere theory channels on YouTube, and they've at least read the books.

See the above, I don't know if this is really going to occur to that degree. But yes, I am worried about this. I think the easiest solution to deal with this is to simply make a subforum for movie discussion.

What I'm more worried about is canon changes from the adaptations. Especially if that begins to affect the books or the Shard. In 2020, Brandon said that, in a Mistborn adaptation, he'd make significant changes. While some of them are minor (gender swapping some of the crew), some of them are fairly significant plot changes. An overview:

• Shan Elariel (soon to be Venture) is now Elend's sister, not his fiance
• House Venture controls the city police and has the atium stash (not the full thing, but a lot of it)
• Atium is burnable by all allomancers (not that big of a deal in TFE, but changes HOA fairly significantly, I think nalatium is a more elegant solution)
• No more sign of sixteen (imo not that bad to get rid of)
• Dox and Ham are female (going to be odd, but not that bad really. More of a neutral change)

Quote

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

So, one thing I think I did wrong in the books was not having more allomancer guards and soldiers who were women. I don't think our same gender norms would be the case on Scadrial.

One of the [screenplay] revisions is this: Shan is no longer Elend's fiance, but his sister. Their father has left on business to the outer domninances, and so Shan is making a play to secure the heirship, trying to prove she is more bold and strong than her brother. This is what gives the team an opening, and why they're striking now with the heist, as in this version, House Venture maintains the city policing and has access to the atium stash.

The plan is to put a few Allomancers (including Ham) into the Venture house guard, and exploit Shan's desire to prove herself by creating chaos in the city that she'll think she needs to put down with decisive action. That will involve her pulling out the atium stash, which will in turn let the team know where to go to rob them.

It streamlines the book's story in some elegant ways to do this. Shan becomes the primary "mark" of the book, in many ways. It also lets me explain a little more succinctly what various members of the crew are doing in the background while we focus on Vin, who is to get close to Shan as a confidant--which is why she's sent to the parties. And why Shan being a brat to her isn't just annoying, it means a major part of the plan isn't yet in place.

It explains way better, in my opinion, why Shan would act against Elend. It's all clicking into place as I move pieces around. That said, I understand those who want a Television show. I could see going that way, perhaps.

Trouble is, nobody in streaming needs a big fantasy property. Anywhere I go right now, I'd be in a distant second or third place to Tolkien, WoT, Witcher, or Kingkiller. The offers I've gotten have been for a fraction of the budget of those shows--since everyone has already spent big money on their big fantasy show, and isn't really interested in another.

I'm confident feature is the place I want Mistborn; but even if I weren't, I'm not thrilled by the idea of being lost on Netflix as their "other" fantasy show.

Rapharasium

I don't know if I'm being negative, but these changes really worry and disappoint me. I really like Era 1 as it is, and all this change in the dynamics of society and the plot as too drastic.

Brandon Sanderson

This isn't negative; I understand this response, and think it's valid.

At the same time, I'm of the personal philosophy that a film should generally be a different beast than a book--a book can lean into the little intricacies of a story, while a film should be a bold but unified statement.

Nothing will happen to the books; those will remain the same. But if I want this film to work as a film, I believe I need to be willing to re-imagine parts of the story.

Mycroft_canner

With Elend having a sister does that mean you don’t need the Zane plot anymore?

Brandon Sanderson

That's from the second book--so it would be in the television show, and we'd likely still do it.

DataLoreHD

prove she is more bold and strong than her brother

Which brother?It certainly could not be Elend, right? Elend had no Allomancy powers (before he ate the lerasium in WoA), so Straff despised Elend and thought him too weak.And Zane was a bastard and also mad dog.If Shan was Straff's legitimate daughter, then her succession was already 100% secure. She wouldn't need to prove anything to anybody.

Brandon Sanderson

It will be Elend, but it's more that this is the first time that Shan gets to be on her own, leading by herself, and wants to show off for the Lord Ruler. Also, there's the question of whether the male heir--though inferior in this case--might get the nod for sexism reasons. I think it's going to work just fine, but I'll admit, it's getting a little rough to discuss all these details on a thread like this--I can't answer everyone's questions, I'm afraid. I just wanted to indicate the kinds of changes I'm looking at making.

Whatever I do will go through my standard "show it to tons of beta readers and get feedback" process, so I should be able to catch problems and fix them.

meh84f

The bit about atium is a bit confusing. The Ventures are going to have the Atium stash? Not the stash that we don’t find until the end I’m assuming? So it’ll be a stash but much smaller than expected?

Brandon Sanderson

So, I'm not sure I can explain it all in this, but one big change I wished I'd made from the start of Mistborn is making atium usable by all Allomancers. As I've gotten further in the cosmere, using a god metal as just for Mistborn has felt off.

So the lore change for the films will mean any Allomancer can use atium. This, in turn, lets House Venture have access to the LR's atium as a "Control the city" last resort. They keep a task force of allomancers for this purpose--which Ham can join, in anticipation of being able to steal it once Shan accesses it. (They don't know that House Venture is only given about a hundred beads of atium, not access to the full mythical cache, which will be reserved for the third movie.)

Makes the worldbuilding and storytelling more elegant, I've found, in the film. And it fits better with more "modern" cosmere fundamentals as have developed over the last decade. I think I'd make this change even if we moved to a television show and long form.

The Lord Ruler is still the "big bad" but Shan and the Inquisitors both get a little more screen time. (Actually, about the same as in the books--it's just that other parts are being trimmed, making them more front-and-center.)

Phantine

Based on that, you're also streamlining away the Sign of Sixteen if it gets a sequel? To be honest, that didn't really work for me in the novel anyway.

Brandon Sanderson

It's one of my least favorite parts of the trilogy. It (along with Vin drawing upon the mists in book one) are big changes I'm hoping to make to fix weaker sections of the continuity.

General Reddit 2020 (June 22, 2020)

Quote

Sophia

You mentioned previously that you regret making Vin the only woman in Kelsier's crew. Is that something you're planning to change in the Mistborn screenplay?

Brandon Sanderson

It is; I actually already did it. Both Dox and Ham are female in the screenplay. And actually, Ham in particular works really well as a woman, because one of the things that I wanted to do was play with Vin's conceptions of how a thieving crew works, because she worked in bad ones, and not understanding how a great team can work. So I have a great scene where she misinterprets everybody's job in the crew from glancing at them, making a quick judgement, and saying "Well this person's this, this person's this." And the only one she gets right is Spook. It works so well.

Like, in the book, I can take pages and pages to show you, "This is how this crew is different from ones you might have read and ones that Vin has been part of." And in this, the movie, you need to have scenes do a lot of heavy duty lifting, multiple things at the same time. So in this scene, Vin can do that, and then we understand her judgement of why she said all these things, and then Kelsier can be like, "No. That right there is our Thug," pointing at Dockson [Ham], who is now a shorter woman. And with the powers of Allomancy, doesn't matter. And it becomes kind of a big moment, both for the audience and for Vin to understand "things are different here."

I do have to warn you, there isn't a lot of time in the screenplay for the crew. If I'm gonna do this as a film... Which it's not set in stone; it's possible that I'll move to a show. But right now, what I'm planning is: film, television show for Well of Ascension, film. Which means that mostly in the first film, it is focused on Vin, Kelsier, Sazed, and Elend. That's gotta be the core of our film. With Shan as an antagonist. And that's the movie. And I can't spend as much time with each of the crew members, like I did. But what we can do is, we can then move into Well of Ascension as a show, and with that being a show really show the crew and the things they're doing. And kind of write a heist with the crew where the crew is trying to heist keeping the kingdom from collapsing. A thieving crew has been put in charge of a city; let's see if they can keep this empire going. And I think that will work really well in television show format. And that's where we can get into some the things with OreSeur and TenSoon and character arcs for some of the crew members, really get to know Ham and Breeze and everybody.

That's the big cost by doing it in a film. That's the thing you're gonna have to understand, as it becomes really Vin and Kelsier's story. And I think it's gonna work. I think it is great. But if it doesn't, we do have the option of just doing a television show. Which I know a lot of you would rather see; I just see Mistborn as a film. I've always seen it as a feature film. So I'm hoping I can make it work.

Footnote: Brandon appears to misspeak, labeling Dockson as the Thug instead of Ham.
YouTube Livestream 10 (June 18, 2020)

I'm worried that we're going to end up with two canons—one movies and one not. And over time, even if the Shard does it's best to keep wannabe fans out, a shift will occur. This can be seen with LoTR (as Frustration said), the most significant example being Denethor. I don't think two separate fandoms are going to exist, but one is going to subsume the other. (and I'd indefinitely prefer books to win)

[Frustration]

37 minutes ago, Qianweilian said:

I disagree. The Cosmere fandom is fairly centralized—the Shard runs half of everything online. Any movie watchers will probably get redirected to the Shard, to which they'll meet all the most zealous book readers. They'll either assimilate or leave. The most separate fandom we might get is a couple of tiny reddit communities and some youtube channels. I don't think a separate fandom will really exist, unless they are massively successful.

That really depends. More people watch movies than read books. If successful then it's entirely possible for the number of movie fans to quickly outnumber book fans. Just with that Reddit and YoutTube would cease to be about books almost immediately. We can see this even with unsuccessful adaptations like WoT, now admittedly there aren't any new books coming out, but all conversation immediately shifted to the tv series. And that was a massive failure by every metric.

And personally I think that a terrible movie adaptation would be just as bad as a successful one, though I suppose if it bombs and loses everything then Brandon won't waste his time with more movies. But on the other hand then it's forever tied to a terrible film. So I really don't know what to hope for.

41 minutes ago, Qianweilian said:

What I'm more worried about is canon changes from the adaptations. Especially if that begins to affect the books or the Shard. In 2020, Brandon said that, in a Mistborn adaptation, he'd make significant changes. While some of them are minor (gender swapping some of the crew), some of them are fairly significant plot changes. An overview:

• Shan Elariel (soon to be Venture) is now Elend's sister, not his fiance
• House Venture controls the city police and has the atium stash (not the full thing, but a lot of it)
• Atium is burnable by all allomancers (not that big of a deal in TFE, but changes HOA fairly significantly, I think nalatium is a more elegant solution)
• No more sign of sixteen (imo not that bad to get rid of)
• Dox and Ham are female (going to be odd, but not that bad really. More of a neutral change)

I'm worried that we're going to end up with two canons—one movies and one not. And over time, even if the Shard does it's best to keep wannabe fans out, a shift will occur. This can be seen with LoTR (as Frustration said), the most significant example being Denethor. I don't think two separate fandoms are going to exist, but one is going to subsume the other. (and I'd indefinitely prefer books to win)

I'd agree quite heavily here. This sums up a lot of my worries.

[Conure1243 He/Him]

I just found this a day late.

[Nitpicking]

20 hours ago, Through The Living Star said:

Those are really valid concerns. I would also rather the Brandon's time go to writing books (cough cough SA 6 cough cough). 

That's it, 100%. 

I don't care about and won't watch a show. For me, it's purely a way for Brandon to not write stories. 

[Qianweilian He/him]

3 hours ago, Frustration said:

That really depends. More people watch movies than read books. If successful then it's entirely possible for the number of movie fans to quickly outnumber book fans.

That's true. It's always a risk. However, I think instead of us being "quickly outnumer[ed]", I think it is more of a long term risk. After all, this is a very active fanbase and he is still releasing books.

3 hours ago, Frustration said:

Just with that Reddit and YoutTube would cease to be about books almost immediately.

Yes, probably. I don't spend a lot of time on either, especially Cosmere parts, but yes.

3 hours ago, Frustration said:

We can see this even with unsuccessful adaptations like WoT, now admittedly there aren't any new books coming out, but all conversation immediately shifted to the tv series. And that was a massive failure by every metric.

I actually think it's shifting away. The WoT show has been discussed to death, and it's moving to more book focused—though probably never as much as before.

3 hours ago, Frustration said:

And personally I think that a terrible movie adaptation would be just as bad as a successful one, though I suppose if it bombs and loses everything then Brandon won't waste his time with more movies. But on the other hand then it's forever tied to a terrible film. So I really don't know what to hope for.

True. I doubt it's going to truly bomb in most likely scenarios, as many fans are going to go see at least the Mistborn movie, but it's possible WoA+Stormlight doesn't get made. Also, I wouldn't be too nervous about a bad film, after all, this exists.

2 hours ago, Nitpicking said:

I don't care about and won't watch a show. For me, it's purely a way for Brandon to not write stories. 

Honestly, even if it is truly terrible, I'm probably still going to watch a movie. A show, I might watch a couple of episodes.

 

I'm worried Brandon's going to be too focused on what could have been when he wrote Mistborn, and that the plot is going to suffer for it. In Hollywood, he can't just write all three books and then publish them one by one like he did Mistborn.

[Jult]

I'm pretty amused to see how many people clicked this out of hope that it was true instead of fear. I'm also in that camp for a lot of the same reasons people have already said.

I hate adaptations. I've never seen an adaptation be better than the source material. If Cosmere movies and TV shows have to happen (and I wish they didn't), then I'd prefer that they'd be new stories instead of re-imagined versions of existing ones. At least that way they'd contribute to reaching the end of Brandon's vision for the Cosmere instead of delaying us getting there.

[Qianweilian He/him]

11 minutes ago, Jult said:

I hate adaptations. I've never seen an adaptation be better than the source material.

I haven't read the book, but I've heard the Princess Bride adaptation is significantly better.

[Verdance he/him]

9 minutes ago, Qianweilian said:

I haven't read the book, but I've heard the Princess Bride adaptation is significantly better.

I have read both, and heartily agreeth

[Treamayne]

5 hours ago, Jult said:

I've never seen an adaptation be better than the source material.

5 hours ago, Qianweilian said:

I haven't read the book, but I've heard the Princess Bride adaptation is significantly better.

The Princess Bride. I don't really care for the movie (not my type of humour) and I still think it is orders of magnitude better than the book. Hunger Games (first Trilogy), to me, was also improved by adaptation. 

Otherwise, concur. It is very rare for an adaptation to be comparably good (The Martian, Fight Club, Jurassic Park like Highlander, there should have been only one) much less actually better. 

I fully expect a flop, but since I won't be watching it I only care as much as it impacts the book release schedule. 

Edited April 3 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Qianweilian He/him]

52 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

I fully expect a flop, but since I won't be watching it I only care as much as it impacts the book release schedule. 

I don't think it will be a flop, per se, I think it will just be "fine." I'm actually nervous about the "full creative control," as

a) Brandon is not a movie director. If he writes the screenplay as he says, it would be best if he yielded to people experienced in movies. Prose is already his weakest point, and, while movies are not the same thing, I'm worried that will translate poorly to a film

b) It will place the movies as a weird pseudo canon. The rpg is mostly forgiven for this by the fact that no one expects an rpg to be fully canon. Despite this, it's actual status has been frequently debated and it's unclear how far it's canonicity extends and how it interacts with existing WoBs. A movie will only exacerbate these issues—significantly so if Brandon is majorly involved.

c) It could slow down books, and Brandon's workload is already piling up. I suspect that the adaptations will replace any hope of a Rithmatist sequel and will delay Book of Nails, Elantris 2, Nightblood, etc.

d) It could potentially amplify a transformation of the fandom from book fans to movie fans (as I and Frustration have said), though I think Brandon's actions would have the least influence on this and it could be significantly curtailed by the actions of the 17th Shard staff. In fact, I bet they've already began to have discussions about how to handle movie fans.

 

My position is different from most in here in that I do want an adaptation, but I suspect Brandon utilizing his control for more than a veto (which seems unlikely) has a high possibility of creating multiple issues.

 

Edit: I think the reason why Brandon is trying to exert so much more control is because he got spooked by WoT and ignorance from Amazon execs.

Edited April 3 by Qianweilian

[Nitpicking]

It's clear that Brandon adds new projects to his schedule faster than he writes books. I don't see that changing. 

I think the Elantris and White Sand sequels are dead, and that he'll stall out (by which I mean, get too old and sick to write) before Dragonsteel. We'll get a dozen more low-effort things like Emberdark, though.

It won't happen, but the only way to actually get all those other Cosmere books (the above, the Aether book/series, the origin of the Night Brigade on Threnody, the sidestory showing what Hoid was doing during Mistborn, the other Secret Histories -- all the stories Brandon has refused to let go of, but has no time to write -- is by this method, which I am sure will not be used:

Brandon learns the lesson of Harriett MacDougall, and goes looking for two or three up-and-coming young fantasy writers, and engages each of them to write different parts of the stuff he, Brandon, will never get to. If he does it now, while he's at the peak of his powers, he can do for them what Robert Jordan couldn't do for Brandon, and help them write the stories in real time, instead of just leaving notes.

I doubt very much that this will happen. But it's the one thing that would actually work.

[Through the living Wahr He/Him]

On 4/3/2026 at 3:43 AM, Qianweilian said:

It could slow down books, and Brandon's workload is already piling up. I suspect that the adaptations will replace any hope of a Rithmatist sequel and will delay Book of Nails, Elantris 2, Nightblood, etc.

Book of Nails is Written by Isaac and not Brandon

5 hours ago, Nitpicking said:

Brandon learns the lesson of Harriett MacDougall, and goes looking for two or three up-and-coming young fantasy writers, and engages each of them to write different parts of the stuff he, Brandon, will never get to. If he does it now, while he's at the peak of his powers, he can do for them what Robert Jordan couldn't do for Brandon, and help them write the stories in real time, instead of just leaving notes.

I doubt very much that this will happen. But it's the one thing that would actually work.

Well Isaac Stewart is writing Book of Nails/Boatload of Mummys

And according to the State of Sanderson there are two non Brandon but Cosmere books in the works. One of them is most likely Issacs book of Nails even though they are listed in Dans Section But I think that at least the other one is written by Dan Wells. 

 

[Nitpicking]

4 hours ago, Through the living Wahr said:

Well Isaac Stewart is writing Book of Nails/Boatload of Mummys

And according to the State of Sanderson there are two non Brandon but Cosmere books in the works. One of them is most likely Issacs book of Nails even though they are listed in Dans Section But I think that at least the other one is written by Dan Wells. 

You are correct, but notice that neither book actually exists. Note further that neither is a "core Cosmere" book, and neither is one of the ones Brandon came up with himself and now will never actually write (if things go as I expect--Brandon often surprises me).

I like the Isaac material in Mistborn and Dan Wells is a very good writer. Neither will be devoting anything like full time to writing Cosmere stuff.

Edited April 4 by Nitpicking
missing article

[Through the living Wahr He/Him]

1 hour ago, Nitpicking said:

You are correct, but notice that neither book actually exists. Note further that neither is a "core Cosmere" book, and neither is one of the ones Brandon came up with himself and now will never actually write (if things go as I expect--Brandon often surprises me).

I like the Isaac material in Mistborn and Dan Wells is a very good writer. Neither will be devoting anything like full time to writing Cosmere stuff.

They dont exist yet, also if those do Well Brandon could certainly ask them if they would take on some of the Projects he doesnt have much time for (Nightblood, Mythos, Aether Book)

[Qianweilian He/him]

7 hours ago, Through the living Wahr said:

Book of Nails is Written by Isaac and not Brandon

Well Isaac Stewart is writing Book of Nails/Boatload of Mummys

And according to the State of Sanderson there are two non Brandon but Cosmere books in the works. One of them is most likely Issacs book of Nails even though they are listed in Dans Section But I think that at least the other one is written by Dan Wells. 

57 minutes ago, Through the living Wahr said:

They dont exist yet, also if those do Well Brandon could certainly ask them if they would take on some of the Projects he doesnt have much time for (Nightblood, Mythos, Aether Book)

I know that he isn't writing it, but Brandon is almost certainly going to have to review the book and we've already been waiting for some time.