Cosmere Adaptations Content Rating

[Schizoposting]

1 hour ago, Nesh said:

I don't necessarily agree with that particular criticism, I liked WaT for the most part, just relaying what I've seen online. the Shallan stuff was weak, but not because of Renarian and Rlain.  Yeah, the Shinovar arc could have used, idk something more, but I wasn't expecting Kal to be fighting much after RoW, and he'd just invented therapy like a month ago, I didn't think it should be sophisticated.  I'm saying this as an LDS member that leans a bit more to the right on some issues.  To be fair though, I've only read WaT once.  I need to work my way back through the series for a reread

I think that a lot of what is said online isn't really representative of the actual response, to the books; especially since there seems to be a discrepancy in the reactions of casual readers and hardcore fans. Ultimately, it's still too early to say whether or not WAT is a success or failure IMO. Personally, I liked it enough, that I immediately reread it after finishing.

31 minutes ago, Frustration said:

TSM as much as I love it, sucked. It was terrible.

These two statements seem contradictory.

21 minutes ago, Frustration said:

It wasn't just the pattern being broken. I've been coming to the conclusion over the last couple of months, but I honestly think that Brandon is getting worse as a writer. While he still gets a good book out every now and again the general trend has been towards a decreasing quality.

He wrote 7 Cosmere books in the last 5 years, and two of them—Tress and Yumi—are some of his most beloved, while only ROW and WAT have been controversial. Also, the first 2 chapters of The Fires of December are absolutely incredible, in my opinion. So no, I would not say that he's been getting worse as a writer.

[Frustration]

26 minutes ago, Schizoposting said:

These two statements seem contradictory.

I made an entire thread about it.

My thoughts have evolved since then, but my feelings remain the same.

27 minutes ago, Schizoposting said:

He wrote 7 Cosmere books in the last 5 years, and two of them—Tress and Yumi—are some of his most beloved, while only ROW and WAT have been controversial. Also, the first 2 chapters of The Fires of December are absolutely incredible, in my opinion. So no, I would not say that he's been getting worse as a writer.

I can find two good chapters in any Sanderson book, so I'll leave FoD out.

 Tress was okay, but I'd put it neat Elantris personally. Yumi was good that's true but up until RoW the worst Sanderson books were considered Alloy of Law and Elantris. That's after over a decade of authorship. Since 2020 RoW, and WaT have both put themselves in there almost universally, with others like TLM or TSM sneaking in there. In five years he's made twice the number of bad books than he did in the first 15.

[Schizoposting]

25 minutes ago, Frustration said:

I made an entire thread about it.

My thoughts have evolved since then, but my feelings remain the same.

I personally don't mind soft magic, so I didn't have that issue.

28 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Tress was okay, but I'd put it neat Elantris personally. 

It's one of Brandon's most popular books, alongside the likes of Mistborn and Stormlight. But I imagine that this may be a matter of taste; those who exclusively like epic or otherwise "serious" fantasy probably won't be partial to Tress, given its whimsical fairy tale style.

32 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Yumi was good that's true but up until RoW the worst Sanderson books were considered Alloy of Law and Elantris. That's after over a decade of authorship. Since 2020 RoW, and WaT have both put themselves in there almost universally, with others like TLM or TSM sneaking in there. In five years he's made twice the number of bad books than he did in the first 15.

Putting WAT or TLM in the same conversation as Elantris is absolutely insane, in my opinion; don't get me wrong, Elantris is a solid read, but it's characterization, plotting, worldbuilding, prose, etc., is way worse than ROW's or WAT's.

I feel like people who say that Brandon is a bad writer, just don't know what actual bad writing looks like; I recently read one of those popular mystery/thrillers, and was so bad that it made Brandon, even at his worst, look like Shakespeare.

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, Schizoposting said:

I personally don't mind soft magic, so I didn't have that issue

As I said my thoughts have changed. I've honestly come to consider TSM as a really long WoB and not a book in it's own right, as without the excitement that comes from the Cosmere lore I wouldn't like the story.

I also do not mind soft-magic, but I can't stand inconsistent magic.

3 minutes ago, Schizoposting said:

It's one of Brandon's most popular books, alongside the likes of Mistborn and Stormlight. But I imagine that this may be a matter of taste; those who exclusively like epic or otherwise "serious" fantasy probably won't be partial to Tress, given its whimsical fairy tale style.

It could be a preference thing, that's true.

4 minutes ago, Schizoposting said:

Putting WAT or TLM in the same conversation as Elantris is absolutely insane, in my opinion; don't get me wrong, Elantris is a solid read, but it's characterization, plotting, worldbuilding, prose, etc., is way worse than ROW's or WAT's.

Elantris is not the best book ever no, but on characterization I find Raoden and Sarene to be better handled than Marasi was in TLM, or Navani in RoW and WaT. WaT was one of the first Cosmere books to have irreconcilable plot holes, and the writing unto itself was worse in WaT than Elantris.

I'd consider them very comparable. I still think AoL is the worst cosmere book, but WaT and TSM are up there.

8 minutes ago, Schizoposting said:

I feel like people who say that Brandon is a bad writer, just don't know what actual bad writing looks like; I recently read one of those popular mystery/thrillers, and was so bad that it made Brandon, even at his worst, look like Shakespeare.

Personally I consider Shakespeare to be a terrible writer but I digress.

I didn't say he was bad, I'm still a fan after all. I said he's getting worse.

[Schizoposting]

59 minutes ago, Frustration said:

I also do not mind soft-magic, but I can't stand inconsistent magic.

To me magic only matters insofar as it serves the story, so I don't have any issues with inconsistency as such. In Thomas Covenant, for instance, the titular character possesses "wild magic", which by definition, doesn't have rules. In the context of the story, this works, even when it's used to defeat the main antagonist and resolve the conflict.

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

Elantris is not the best book ever no, but on characterization I find Raoden and Sarene to be better handled than Marasi was in TLM, or Navani in RoW and WaT. 

I like Raoden, but I still think that he's pretty basic; and I find Sarene to be just plain uninteresting. While Brandon can be somewhat heavy handed at times, I thought that the dynamic between Navani and Raboniel was one of the best that he's written.

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

WaT was one of the first Cosmere books to have irreconcilable plot holes,

What plot holes? I have read WAT at least thrice, and I genuinely can't think of any.

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

and the writing unto itself was worse in WaT than Elantris.

Strong disagree. I think that, actually, the prose in WAT, was some of his strongest outside of Hoid's Travail's.

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

Personally I consider Shakespeare to be a terrible writer but I digress.

He's definitely a difficult read, but the payoff is worth it, IMO. But I have only read 4 of his plays, so I'm hardly an expert.

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

I didn't say he was bad, I'm still a fan after all. I said he's getting worse.

Nah, some of his most original and best works have been written this decade, hardly a sign of worsening writing.

[Frustration]

2 minutes ago, Schizoposting said:

What plot holes? I have read WAT at least thrice, and I genuinely can't think of any.

Well

Spoiler

1. In TSM Nomad says that his armor comes from both his first and second ideals. In WaT he does not swear the fourth ideal and looses his bond before doing so.
2. In Oathbringer it is revealed you can lock or disassemble Oathgates. In WaT doing this would protect Azimir without a fight, and they don't do that despite the Azish specifically trying to keep it locked and to disassemble it so Dalinar can't use it in OB.

 

6 minutes ago, Schizoposting said:

Strong disagree. I think that, actually, the prose in WAT, was some of his strongest outside of Hoid's Travail's.

Maybe the prose unto itself, but the dialogue is so unimaginably terrible I can't stand it.

7 minutes ago, Schizoposting said:

Nah, some of his most original and best works have been written this decade, hardly a sign of worsening writing.

Well in the best works I'd put: WoK, HoA, WoR, and maybe OB.

Of which with the exception of OB all were written over ten years ago.

Now FoD is looking like it could be another entry in here, but I'll keep my expectations modest

[Schizoposting]

45 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Well

  Hide contents

1. In TSM Nomad says that his armor comes from both his first and second ideals. In WaT he does not swear the fourth ideal and looses his bond before doing so.
2. In Oathbringer it is revealed you can lock or disassemble Oathgates. In WaT doing this would protect Azimir without a fight, and they don't do that despite the Azish specifically trying to keep it locked and to disassemble it so Dalinar can't use it in OB.

 

1. It's established that Radiant gain their armor spren before they swear their 4th ideal, so I don't see this a problem.

2. It's shown that you lock them for physical realm travel, but we have no indication that this applies to inter-realm travel, especially when the spren are on the enemy's side. You may have a point here, but I don't think that it's as clear cut as you make it out to be.

45 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Maybe the prose unto itself, but the dialogue is so unimaginably terrible I can't stand it.

I personally didn't have any problems; maybe I cringed once or twice, but that was it. But I guess this comes down to personal taste—despite everyone praising it, Adolin's plotline was my least favorite, because it was so predictable.

45 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Well in the best works I'd put: WoK, HoA, WoR, and maybe OB.

Of which with the exception of OB all were written over ten years ago.

Again, I think that this depends on one's taste; I have seen Tress and Yumi highly praised, even above Stormlight. I think that WAT is excellent, and one of Brandon's best works, but I understand that this opinion is pretty controversial.

45 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Now FoD is looking like it could be another entry in here, but I'll keep my expectations modest

We'll see.

Edited February 9 by Schizoposting

[Frustration]

Just now, Schizoposting said:

---SNIP----

We aren't in the book discussions, we can't have spoilers outside of boxes here

Spoiler

1. And yet no spren come with Sigzil when he leaves Roshar other than Aux

2. They can still take it apart, and at the very least it should have been addressed

 

[Schizoposting]

2 minutes ago, Frustration said:

We aren't in the book discussions, we can't have spoilers outside of boxes here

I forgot that; thanks for reminding me. 

4 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Spoiler

1. And yet no spren come with Sigzil when he leaves Roshar other than Aux

2. They can still take it apart, and at the very least it should have been addressed

Honestly, these details are so minor, that I don't really care if there's some inconsistency. Maybe for you it's different, but I'm here for the story, not for the minutia of the lore. I don't care about plot holes unless if they're so bad that they get in the way of the story.

Like, I don't have any issues with Rowling's world building, even though it makes absolutely no sense, because Harry Potter is meant to be a fun whimsical adventure and the world building does a good job setting this mood. Now, the fact that there arises a tonal discrepancy in the latter books, because of this, is a different matter.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

On 2/8/2026 at 2:49 AM, Aliroz-The-Confused said:

From the minute we know that it's slavery, we should have no doubt about the badness of the baddies (The Final

You will not like this, but not necessarily. Secondly, not in a movie. In fact I would argue that slavery is inevitable under some economic conditions. Suppose starvation and famine are common. Now further suppose you get into a situation where you have to take prisoners, like after a crime or after a battle. Then what do you do?  Do you want to feed criminals in prisons or prisoners of war while innocent citizens are starving to death? You will not.
So what are you alternatives? You cannot let them go. You cannot just kill them. Nobody would ever surrender to you anymore. You can go to corporal punishment for criminals, but that is unlikely to be a general solution. This leaves you with enslavement. So no, you cannot expect people unfamiliar with the setting and left only with limited time to just accept that TFE is irredeemable without really showing it.

On 2/8/2026 at 2:49 AM, Aliroz-The-Confused said:

Empire's opening draws its tension from "will this work or will these people all die?" not "is this morally right?".  Only a results-oriented consequentialist or a deontological pacifist can argue against the morality of Kelsier's attack on the Tresting plantation).

True, but it has to work for the whole movie.

On 2/8/2026 at 2:49 AM, Aliroz-The-Confused said:

From the point I first reads about Sazed and learns what's going on with the Terris, I thought the destruction of the Final Empire was not only justified but morally obligatory.

True, but do you really want to show a scar from a castration on screen? I would really not go there.

On 2/8/2026 at 2:49 AM, Aliroz-The-Confused said:

7) the preservation-and-ruin-theming of the setting making the destruction of the Final Empire Ruin-aligned and the continuation of the Final Empire Preservation-aligned, especially with the context of Rashek's backstory and Alendi's logbook.

That will not be obvious to a viewer.

And you will have to show the legend of TLR saving the world to foreshadow further movies. And that will raise the obvious question: Are we looking at something that is necessary due to circumstances TLR is keeping secret?

On 2/8/2026 at 2:49 AM, Aliroz-The-Confused said:

Most of these are load-bearing, but remove Elend Venture, and you can keep it PG-13 without compromising the audience's understanding that Kelsier's actions are entirely justified.  Or, have him be killed (or seem to be killed) in the first film so that his sympathetic-ness supports the perceived rightness of the Crew rather than undermining it.  Maybe have him show up imprisoned but alive for a surprise and have Kelsier's decision to spare him be during some sort of escape or confrontation.  Or have Elend be among the people that are going to be executed with Renoux and Spook (heck, this event is exactly where he almost dies in the book).

Removing Elend Venture is a bit too far. That would no longer be a Mistborn movie.

On 2/8/2026 at 2:49 AM, Aliroz-The-Confused said:

Alternately, keep Elend as-is but focus on Tepper, Jassa, and Mennis, giving us at least a subplot of their trials and travails as they and the other skaa from the Tresting plantation try to survive, so that we get to know and care for the people that the Crew is doing all of this for.  Make us like them enough, and the sympathies will be rightly aligned without the need for seeing things that would require an R rating.

That won't do. You need to justify that Luthadel is revolting.

On 2/8/2026 at 2:49 AM, Aliroz-The-Confused said:

When I read The Final Empire for the first time back in 2009, one of the things that always stuck with me was Sazed's descriptions of extinct religions.  I found the worldbuilding fascinating, and each little glimpse of a destroyed culture was, in its own way, a heartbreaking reminder of what the Final Empire had ruined.  That some of them held out for centuries was beautiful but deeply upsetting.  Including these sequences where Sazed talks about extinct faiths and gives little human details of them humanizes them, reminding us that it's not just about stopping what's going on, it's about protecting and preserving the memory of what's been lost.  If the screen version gave us visuals of these peoples and cultures, of their cities/architecture/foods/clothing, you could go a long, long way towards making the Final Empire hateable without necessarily showing outright gore (think of the scene in The Incredibles with the computer showing all the superheroes, one after another, with text confirming their fates).

That will work for some people. For others this will just show that TLR had to break some eggs to unify Scadrial and defeat the Deepness, or whatever it will be called.

On 2/8/2026 at 2:49 AM, Aliroz-The-Confused said:

I know a lot of my suggestions are dialogue-heavy, but, to be fair, that doesn't mean it can't also be an action thriller.  Just look at Jurassic Park, which balances the action with quiet dialogue scenes to create a rhythm (inhale, exhale, tension, release, buildup, payoff) that makes the action (to some people, at least) more exciting than it would be, rather than less, because it prevents burnout.  Jaws is an absolutely terrifying movie with very little in the way of actual shark-on-screen content, and from what I've heard Alien is similar (though I've heard Aliens might not be, or maybe I got the two confused).

You are not wrong, but I think you would make it worse in the long run. IMHO the Mistborn series (not The Final Empire) is built on a collision of two issues

1. Destroying the empire and killing TLR are morally speaking correct actions, in fact the only correct choices
2. TLR was indeed protecting Scadrial from an evil god

That conundrum is embodied in the person of Kelsier. If you lower the stakes you turn him into an ordinary imperialist, as opposed to a man who can with full justification say that the gods themselves betrayed him.

[Conure1243 He/Him]

As far as I can tell, this hasn't been said already.

You'll have to fact check me on this, but I believe with the last attempt at a Mistborn movie, the movie studio wanted to make an R-rated movie, but Brandon intervened with a hard no, telling them he wouldn't allow more than PG-13.

I don't see why that would have changed.