Cognitive Realm Distance to an Undiscovered World

[dstokes7]

Imagine that somewhere in the cosmere, there is a habitable, terrestrial planet with no inhabitants at all. Let's say this planet is relatively close to one of the established systems of the Cosmere (Roshar, Scadrial, etc), but has somehow remained undiscovered by anyone in the Cosmere except the Shards. 

Brandon has mentioned that the distance between planets in the Cognitive Realm is gradually increasing over time as the Cosmere's inhabitants gain a greater understanding of how far apart world's really are. In other words, it would take far longer to walk through the Cognitive Realm from Scadrial to Roshar in the Space Age of the Cosmere than it would during Vin's day.

That distance increase is tied to the perceptions of the inhabitants of the worlds themselves. Considering that, would the distance from Roshar to my hypothetical undiscovered planet expand over time as well? No one knows about it, and no one is on said planet to think about it. So would the distance between Roshar and my hypothetical planet in the CR remain unchanged until someone discovered it, or would it expand like everything else?

[alder24]

17 hours ago, dstokes7 said:

Imagine that somewhere in the cosmere, there is a habitable, terrestrial planet with no inhabitants at all. Let's say this planet is relatively close to one of the established systems of the Cosmere (Roshar, Scadrial, etc), but has somehow remained undiscovered by anyone in the Cosmere except the Shards. 

Brandon has mentioned that the distance between planets in the Cognitive Realm is gradually increasing over time as the Cosmere's inhabitants gain a greater understanding of how far apart world's really are. In other words, it would take far longer to walk through the Cognitive Realm from Scadrial to Roshar in the Space Age of the Cosmere than it would during Vin's day.

That distance increase is tied to the perceptions of the inhabitants of the worlds themselves. Considering that, would the distance from Roshar to my hypothetical undiscovered planet expand over time as well? No one knows about it, and no one is on said planet to think about it. So would the distance between Roshar and my hypothetical planet in the CR remain unchanged until someone discovered it, or would it expand like everything else?

I think it would grow even if the planet remains undiscovered. You might not need to know this planet exists at all and as people in Cosmere are becoming aware of the vastness of space, the vacuum itself will slowly manifest more in the Cognitive Realm in general, not specifically between certain locations. That planet might be undiscovered, but there are some other planets beyond this one, which are known and inhabited, so even if you need to be aware of two locations for space in CR to grow between them, this space to this undiscovered planet will still grow. Either way, I think the distance will change, but it won't really be that big of a change.

Spoiler

Nico Bufasassa

If everyone in the Cosmere begins to understand that there is space travel, does that change the distance needed to travel around in Shadesmar considering it's made up of the beliefs of the people?

Brandon Sanderson

What's going to happen is it is going to make the travel distances longer. However, people cannot conceive the immensity of space. The amount different it's going to make it is not going to be so vast that it's insurmountable. It's not going to come one fractional piece of what the actual distance is.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022)

 

10 hours ago, buzzbuzz said:

if no one is on the planet to think about it, would it even exist in the cognitive realm?

Yes, as long as there is any kind of lifeform on this planet, even microbial one, it will have a Cognitive manifestation. If it's a barren rock devoid of life and nobody knows about it, it will still have something because Shards are aware of it, although it's basically nothing.

Spoiler

Questioner

So like as far as distance traveled in Shadesmar. So when Kelsier is in Shadesmar, he meets the Ire, who are presumably Elantrians. How far did he travel? Is that still within Scadrial's realm of the Cognitive Realm?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, that's within-- By the time he meets them he has slipped right to the edge of the Cognitive Realm on Scadrial and into, kind of, the darkness between planets. 

Questioner

Okay.

Brandon Sanderson

He's close enough that he can get there. But he's kind of suffused with Scadrian Investiture then, to a point that it would be harder--you saw in there--for him to get further. I would say that he's like... He has entered space between planets, but he's not out of the solar system.

Questioner

Okay, so he's still in the Scadrian system, just not--just edging a bit there.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, yep. That's what I'd say if I had to actually point him in that <a map>. It gets really fuzzy though, because it wouldn't be too much longer before he enters another solar system. Like, he would pass lightyears in steps as he starts getting further, if that makes any sense.

Questioner

That makes sense, because, I mean, with worldhopping in general it's like... You can only... I mean it's... I don't know how the time dilation works per se, but...

Brandon Sanderson

It's not-- there's not much time dilation. What you've got going on is... Things that people aren't around to think about, things without minds or any sort of life, don't manifest on Shadesmar very much at all. And so the space between planets gets really small, unless there's another planet out there with thinking beings or at least some sort of life on it. Like even lower lifeforms, you'll get something manifesting on Shadesmar. But yeah

Questioner

Okay. So the Cognitive Realm, in Shadesmar... It's kind of the... Any kind of sentient or cognitive life-- that's what is building Shadesmar? So like anything where there's blackness... is like... condensed or--

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, yes. Particularly if no one's thinking about it. If people are thinking about it - like, for instance, an island in the ocean that was scoured of all life and even bacteria would still manifest in Shadesmar on that planet because people are aware of it and things like this. But one on the other side of the planet, that no one ever knew about it, probably wouldn't.

Questioner

So that same island, if people just stopped thinking about it or like stopped being aware of its presence, would it...

Brandon Sanderson

It could slowly vanish, yes. And so-- But that's more of a thought experiment. You're never gonna have a planet that that happens to, you know cause-- but thought experiment wise, yes, that would eventually kind of get consumed by Shadesmar and vanish. The same thing would happen to a planet that you strip the atmosphere from--all the bacteria and life dies on it--you know, slowly going to vanish. But a moon will still manifest because people are thinking about it. It'll just not-- it won't-- it'll be hokey, it'll be weird--the moon will be. Like you might find a little patch that represents the moon. Something like that.

Questioner

That's interesting.

Brandon Sanderson

You're not gonna find the full landscape of the moon until people start visiting it. And it's gonna grow on Shadesmar.

White Sand vol.1 release party (June 28, 2016)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

If a planet has no sentient life, does it have a Cognitive representation? If not, would the Cognitive area generate in Shadesmar whenever sentience appeared there?

Brandon Sanderson

People have started to talk about this, because it is a legit thing. So, if there is no sapient life, or even sentient life, if it's a dead rock out in space and nobody knows it's there, its manifestation in Shadesmar will be basically nothing. I say basically because the Shards are aware of it, so there's probably going to be some bit of something that manifests, but until the attention of sapient beings starts focusing on it, it's not going to manifest very much in Shadesmar. It might be like a patch of ground that is a couple feet wide. It is going to start growing as soon as they do, which distorts space in Shadesmar, and makes routes between planets change and more distance come between them. Which is very very odd, and very very interesting, and it's one of my favorite parts about the whole thing. It should kind of break your brain, and it shouldn't really make sense with our physics.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 4 (June 16, 2022)

 

[buzzbuzz she/her]

if no one is on the planet to think about it, would it even exist in the cognitive realm?

[dstokes7]

1 hour ago, buzzbuzz said:

if no one is on the planet to think about it, would it even exist in the cognitive realm?

I'm not sure, but I think so. In Arcanum Unbounded, Khriss mentions they can observe non-Shard worlds from the Cognitive Realm, and I always figured that included the gas giants of the Rosharan system. But maybe I misunderstood?