Epicdaf Posted January 20 Posted January 20 Crazy theory time! So I was revisiting Secret History and The Eleventh Metal. I did some research into Gemmel & Eleventh metal, and realized that Gemmel has long been suspected to have been spiked. Here's the direct Coppermind quote: Quote Gemmel is "touched by" Ruin[6] and likely Hemalurgically spiked. The two main reasons to assume that he's spiked are that Gemmel hears a voice no one else hears that seems to tell him to kill everyone he meets (Ruin's voice), and that the mists aren't attracted to him like they are drawn to most Allomancers.[1][7] Through Ruin, Gemmel knew things he probably couldn't have figured out by himself, like certain aspects about Kelsier's past or where to find the Eleventh Metal. Ruin's influence also affects Gemmel's personality. At first sight, he just seems a madman, but a lot of what he says to Kelsier is very similar to Ruin's sayings. This applies especially to his answer on Kelsier's sarcastic question about the meaning of life.[1][8] “Don't know it. I think it's so we can die. ” —Gemmel's vision on the meaning of life[1] “The only point in creating something is to watch it die. ” So, here's the theory. Did Ruin reveal the Eleventh metal to Gemmel, who then shared it with Kelsier, to then be passed along to Vin, so she could use it to kill the Lord Ruler and take the power of the Well to release Ruin? If so, holy rusts! That was an elaborate gambit. What do you think? 3
Aliroz-The-Confused Posted January 20 Posted January 20 Ati, you magnificent [rude word deleted], I read your book! 2
Qianweilian He/him Posted January 20 Posted January 20 Quote Questioner How does Kelsier meet Gemmel? Brandon Sanderson How does Kelsier meet Gemmel. Gemmel was directed to find Kelsier. Words of Radiance Omaha signing (March 13, 2014) Quote L0lbert My question is however, is Kelsier influenced by Ruin in some way? Does he have any metal in him? The parts that got me thinking is how he is the one who suggested to Vin that she should keep her earrings in. Futhermore he has a strong urge to kill and destroy, though that is mainly limited to nobility and it is meant to help overthrow the empire. Lasltly there was someone in the last book (I'm afraid I can't remember who right now) who said that Lord Penrod (who at the time was contolled by Ruin) used housewars to destroy the city, which is the exact thing Kelsier did also. I'm sorry if my answer has an obvious answer, or if I've overlooked something, but these points got me to strongly belive that Kelsier was influenced by Ruin. Brandon Sanderson No metal in Kelsier, though good question. However, he was trained by a man touched by Ruin, and has a certain natural inclination toward destruction and killing. That's all him. I've said before that Kelsier, in another story or time, might have become something far more terrible. That's what makes him interesting to me as a character. /r/books AMA 2015 (Aug. 28, 2015) I think the answer is yes. I don't think is theory is as crazy as you would think. 3
ParaTulip fae/faer (declines as she/her) Posted January 20 Posted January 20 Yeah, it seems like both Ati and Leras were going nuts on the scheming thing. Somehow, Ati figured having another Atium Alloy in circulation would result in someone realizing Rashek's youth compounding and associated weaknesses. In return Leras came up with the Sign of 1/16th and somehow Elend just got that meant "feed the Atium to those people". This all feels weird to notice as a 'plan' and not just a bunch of weird stuff being done by characters who have lost most of their sanity to each other's pain and suffering. 2
alder24 Posted January 21 Posted January 21 22 hours ago, Epicdaf said: Crazy theory time! So I was revisiting Secret History and The Eleventh Metal. I did some research into Gemmel & Eleventh metal, and realized that Gemmel has long been suspected to have been spiked. Here's the direct Coppermind quote: So, here's the theory. Did Ruin reveal the Eleventh metal to Gemmel, who then shared it with Kelsier, to then be passed along to Vin, so she could use it to kill the Lord Ruler and take the power of the Well to release Ruin? If so, holy rusts! That was an elaborate gambit. What do you think? Yes, SH ch 1-1: Quote “I used the Eleventh Metal.” “Foolishness,” God said. He started pacing. “That was Ruin’s influence on you. But what was the point? I can’t understand why he wanted you to have that useless metal.” 3
AleStaar he/him Posted January 22 Posted January 22 (edited) On 1/20/2026 at 9:36 AM, Epicdaf said: Crazy theory time! So I was revisiting Secret History and The Eleventh Metal. I did some research into Gemmel & Eleventh metal, and realized that Gemmel has long been suspected to have been spiked. Here's the direct Coppermind quote: So, here's the theory. Did Ruin reveal the Eleventh metal to Gemmel, who then shared it with Kelsier, to then be passed along to Vin, so she could use it to kill the Lord Ruler and take the power of the Well to release Ruin? If so, holy rusts! That was an elaborate gambit. What do you think? Yes, for the most part. I don’t think Ruin revealed the eleventh metal to Gemmel. But he did direct Gemmel to Kelsier, who then found Shezler’s notebook starting the obsession. Then Kelsier went all around Scadrial searching for rumors, stories, legends, and prophecies about the metal. All fabricated by Ruin. Until he found the bar of metal in the north. Kelsier then passed the bar to Vin, who used it to kill the Lord Ruler. I’ve always thought Ruin was executing an elaborate precognitive gambit wherein he manipulated many Scadrians to get to Kelsier, who would get to Vin. Hoping Vin would burn malatium and the Mists, so she could use them to kill the Lord Ruler. Allowing her to release Ruin. Edited January 22 by AleStaar 1
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