Spren Dragging People into Shadesmar

[Trusk'our he/him]

In WaT, Shallan comments on how she believed it was her double Spren bond that was pulling her into the CR whenever she tried using Transformation. There's more "weight" on that end than present in your typical Radiant bond.

This makes me wonder, could a bunch of Spren drag a Physical Realm being into Shadesmar?

Say, an enclave of Cryptics believes they need a particular human to solve an abstract problem for them, and one-hundred of them travel to and pull on the person with Connection. 

Or, if a person tried to bond an Unmade that existed solely in the CR, and it decided to reach out as well, would it possibly pull them into Shadesmar?

Or, stretching this mechanism a bit more, could a large swarm of Emotion Spren possibly pull a human there? Not sure they'd even try with their limited cognition, but it would be interesting to see.

 

It would certainly make a fun wives tale that turned out to be true.

[Nitpicking]

So, the opposite of what Ishar did to spren?

I think you'd need enough spren to open a Perpendicularity. Which means, as powerful as the Sibling (in aggregate).

[Treamayne]

2 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

Shallan comments on how she believed it was her double Spren bond that was pulling her into the CR whenever she tried using Transformation.

I would direct you to the WoR Deleted Jasnah Scene that describes the difference between Elsecalling (changing realms with your physical body) and using a Junction to see Shadesmar when Soulcasting (what is happening with Shallan - her preception changes to the Cognitive Identity while her physical body sits in the physcuial realm, mindless). A double bond will not allow a Lightweaver to Elsecall. . . 

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, Treamayne said:

I would direct you to the WoR Deleted Jasnah Scene that describes the difference between Elsecalling (changing realms with your physical body) and using a Junction to see Shadesmar when Soulcasting (what is happening with Shallan - her preception changes to the Cognitive Identity while her physical body sits in the physcuial realm, mindless). A double bond will not allow a Lightweaver to Elsecall. . . 

Lightweavers can move physically to the CR, but it isn't easy for them.

RoW page 322

[Treamayne]

2 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Lightweavers can move physically to the CR, but it isn't easy for them.

RoW page 322

Any more information on that source, perchance? Chapter number, scene, PoV?

[Frustration]

4 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Any more information on that source, perchance? Chapter number, scene, PoV?

It's when Adolin and Shallan are starting their expedition into Shadesmar. I believe it was Adolin's PoV, I just took notes on it, so I unfortunately do not remember the chapter.

[Treamayne]

6 minutes ago, Frustration said:

It's when Adolin and Shallan are starting their expedition into Shadesmar. I believe it was Adolin's PoV, I just took notes on it, so I unfortunately do not remember the chapter.

RoW Ch 22:

Spoiler

That was fortunate, for while Shallan could slip into Shadesmar using her powers, she couldn’t take anyone with her

Adolin's PoV - "slip" into Shadesmar is not, necessarily, Physically entering Shadesmar. Implied yes, definitive, no. The WoB also says it is implied - and with Implied stressed and RAFOed, I remain doubtful. But, thank you for the source.

Spoiler

Questioner

When a Radiant is in the Cognitive Realm, does their mind exist individually, like separately from their body?

Brandon Sanderson

Uhh, no.

Questioner

So you physically travel to the Cognitive Realm?

Brandon Sanderson

You can kind of step in between both but you do not separate from your body.

Questioner

So when Shallan is only partly in...she's in both at the same time?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. She's transitioning. It's not astral projection. But no that's a legit question.

NutiketAiel

So Shallan, and Lightweavers, are capable of physically stepping into Shadesmar?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO. But the implication is yes.

Words of Radiance Philadelphia signing (March 21, 2014)

Edit: even if they do transition physically, it's not the spren pulling her in, it's the strength of the Surge of Transformation allowing deeper access to Shadesmar - so the point may well be moot. 

Edited January 18 by Treamayne
Edit/SPAG

[Trusk'our he/him]

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

Edit: even if they do transition physically, it's not the spren pulling her in, it's the strength of the Surge of Transformation allowing deeper access to Shadesmar - so the point may well be moot. 

True, but doesn't Shallan conclude that her being pulled into Shadesmar more than normal when Soulcasting is a result of her double bond? (Not a perfect source, as characters in-world can be wrong, but it feels quite fitting).

Definitely requires the Surge itself in that situation (I imagine something similar must have happened when Ivory first met Jasnah and pulled her into the CR, maybe using her as an unwitting conduit after beginning to form a pseudo bond).

Hmm, I wonder if there was a large amount of Investiture present at the time. Say, if they were out in the Highstorm, would that thinning of the Realms be enough to let the stronger pull into the CR work? Similar process to a Perpendicularity there, just with a little help.