Dumb plot question

[Verdance he/him]

This might be a “why didn’t the eagles fly the ring to Mordor” situation, but why didn’t Dalinar just leave Odium on Roshar and take as much of humanity as possible with him when it became apparent he couldn’t beat Odium? Too hard to travel through Shadesmar/get off planet, weird oath stuff that wouldn’t keep Odium trapped, etc? 

[Shattere She/her]

I was thinking the exact same thing. I know this is kind of dark, but the entire fate of humanity on Roshar depended on Dalinar defeating Odiums champion, so Dalinar should’ve killed Gavinar, even though they were close relatives. This is just my view on the situation though. 
I also just might be stupid, but I thought Wind and Truth was the end of the series, and when I found out there’s five more books coming, I got a little bit frustrated. I’m a little… special.

[Through the Living Hopper He/Him]

1 hour ago, edgyswordname said:

This might be a “why didn’t the eagles fly the ring to Mordor” situation, but why didn’t Dalinar just leave Odium on Roshar and take as much of humanity as possible with him when it became apparent he couldn’t beat Odium? Too hard to travel through Shadesmar/get off planet, weird oath stuff that wouldn’t keep Odium trapped, etc? 

How would he have left and/or got everyone to Shadesmar? 

1 minute ago, Shattere said:

I was thinking the exact same thing. I know this is kind of dark, but the entire fate of humanity on Roshar depended on Dalinar defeating Odiums champion, so Dalinar should’ve killed Gavinar, even though they were close relatives. This is just my view on the situation though. 
I also just might be stupid, but I thought Wind and Truth was the end of the series, and when I found out there’s five more books coming, I got a little bit frustrated. I’m a little… special.

I always feel guilty for this, but I'm still angry at Dalinar for not killing Gavinor.

[Shattere She/her]

I know! Why didn’t he bring a weapon as well? And Adolin decided not to summon his sword before entering the room with what’s-his-name and almost died for that. I would probably make even worse decisions in those situations, but they’re adults.

[Verdance he/him]

7 minutes ago, ThatOneWorldhopper said:

How would he have left and/or got everyone to Shadesmar? 

I always feel guilty for this, but I'm still angry at Dalinar for not killing Gavinor.

Yeah, again, less realistic to get humanity off planet, and would kind of make for a less cool book, but still. Would be interesting if the plot revolved around trying to exploit that loophole to keep Odium trapped AND protect the humans on Roahar by smuggling them out of the system. Then again, by Wind And Truth, there are more than a few Radiants who can access Shadesmar. Just move to Sel, or Nalthis, or Scadrial. 

[Chaos he/him]

FYI, spoiler discussion should go in specific book boards, not the General Brandon Discussion board. I have moved this for you. 

[Verdance he/him]

1 minute ago, Chaos said:

FYI, spoiler discussion should go in specific book boards, not the General Brandon Discussion board. I have moved this for you. 

Thanks! My bad, I’m new here. Have a great New Year’s!

[Returned he/him]

A few possibilities which matter, but are probably not decisive:

1. Probably only a tiny fraction of humans on Roshar would be able to do this, at best. The logistics of getting enough people to usable Oathgates, the supplies they would need for the journey, equipment for crossing the seas of beads, and other considerations like those would all be very expensive and difficult to organize on short notice. This in turn prompts some tricky questions on which people are allowed to take the available slots to depart, and which people would be denied, and similar.

2. This is basically the same thing that happened when humans fled Ashyn for Roshar. I can see why repeating the process, even down to not having a solution for the problems that caused the exodus, might not be appealing. And where would they go this time?

3. Dalinar wouldn't be able to go, nor would any Radiant or spren. They're too Invested to leave the Rosharan system (with the knowledge they have available at that time). Abandoning all of the spren to destruction isn't very honorable, which Dalinar's entire arc led him to value.

4. This would almost certainly count as breaking the contract (by not participating in the contest or by deserting it while it's happening), which has consequences even worse than just losing and would not keep Odium contained on Roshar.

5. Even if Dalinar somehow could get all of the humans off of Roshar without violating the contract, that would imply that the Singers (if not Odium itself) could also leave. Inflicting Odium's soldiers on the Cosmere doesn't solve any problems, even if they left the Rosharan refugees alone.

6. The contract Dalinar strikes with Odium suggests, though does not guarantee, that the humans remaining on Roshar no longer face extermination even if Odium wins the contest proper. I wouldn't want to rely on that too much, but it is  a factor.

7. Whatever else a person might think about Dalinar's solution, it forces the rest of the Cosmere to reckon with Odium. Roshar spent thousands of years paying the price for containing Odium, for the costless-to-them benefit of everyone else in the Cosmere, particularly the Shards. While I think the brilliance of the Sunmaker's Gambit is very overstated, Odium is a Shard-level problem and ultimately has to be dealt with by Shards, one way or another. I made a thread quite a while ago suggesting that the only way to deal with the problems Odium represents is to combine it with other Shards, which was accomplished here, and now it's the other Shards that have to deal with additional consequences rather than abandoning millions of people to Odium's depredations.

8. The entire point of Dalinar's decision to not kill Gavinor is that killing him wouldn't have solved much, or at least that's my take on it. Odium might not be able to actively damage Rosharans further but would still be able to threaten the rest of the Cosmere with agents working at his direction. That was his plan if he were to win anyways, he just really wanted Dalinar to be one of those agents. The Singers and Fused would still be present on Roshar, still be able to draw power from the Everstorm, and would still be able to prosecute wars against the human nations if they wanted (which the Fused almost certainly would).

9. That Odium agreed to the contract at all, even though he wasn't happy about it, basically proves that losing isn't a permanent issue for him. Losing the war more conventionally than losing the contest wouldn't have restricted him at all, as we saw was the case in the previous Desolations, so it seems unwise to assume that he would trade another temporary defeat of the same type for a guaranteed end to his ambitions forever. So even Dalinar winning the contest doesn't solve anything, it only buys some time. And time is dross to the immortal Odium, as the Stormfather described.

Edited December 31, 2025 by Returned

[Verdance he/him]

15 minutes ago, Returned said:

A few possibilities which matter, but are probably not decisive:

1. Probably only a tiny fraction of humans on Roshar would be able to do this, at best. The logistics of getting enough people to usable Oathgates, the supplies they would need for the journey, equipment for crossing the seas of beads, and other considerations like those would all be very expensive and difficult to organize on short notice. This in turn prompts some tricky questions on which people are allowed to take the available slots to depart, and which people would be denied, and similar.

2. This is basically the same thing that happened when humans fled Ashyn for Roshar. I can see why repeating the process, even down to not having a solution for the problems that caused the exodus, might not be appealing. And where would they go this time?

3. Dalinar wouldn't be able to go, nor would any Radiant or spren. They're too Invested to leave the Rosharan system (with the knowledge they have available at that time). Abandoning all of the spren to destruction isn't very honorable, which Dalinar's entire arc led him to value.

4. This would almost certainly count as breaking the contract (by not participating in the contest or by deserting it while it's happening), which has consequences even worse than just losing and would not keep Odium contained on Roshar.

5. Even if Dalinar somehow could get all of the humans off of Roshar without violating the contract, that would imply that the Singers (if not Odium itself) could also leave. Inflicting Odium's soldiers on the Cosmere doesn't solve any problems, even if they left the Rosharan refugees alone.

6. The contract Dalinar strikes with Odium suggests, though does not guarantee, that the humans remaining on Roshar no longer face extermination even if Odium wins the contest proper. I wouldn't want to rely on that too much, but it is  a factor.

7. Whatever else a person might think about Dalinar's solution, it forces the rest of the Cosmere to reckon with Odium. Roshar spent thousands of years paying the price for containing Odium, for the costless-to-them benefit of everyone else in the Cosmere, particularly the Shards. While I think the brilliance of the Sunmaker's Gambit is very overstated, Odium is a Shard-level problem and ultimately has to be dealt with by Shards, one way or another. I made a thread quite a while ago suggesting that the only way to deal with the problems Odium represents is to combine it with other Shards, which was accomplished here, and now it's the other Shards that have to deal with additional consequences rather than abandoning millions of people to Odium's depredations.

8. The entire point of Dalinar's decision to not kill Gavinor is that killing him wouldn't have solved much, or at least that's my take on it. Odium might not be able to actively damage Rosharans further but would still be able to threaten the rest of the Cosmere with agents working at his direction. That was his plan if he were to win anyways, he just really wanted Dalinar to be one of those agents. The Singers and Fused would still be present on Roshar, still be able to draw power from the Everstorm, and would still be able to prosecute wars against the human nations if they wanted (which the Fused almost certainly would).

9. That Odium agreed to the contract at all, even though he wasn't happy about it, basically proves that losing isn't a permanent issue for him. Losing the war more conventionally than losing the contest wouldn't have restricted him at all, as we saw was the case in the previous Desolations, so it seems unwise to assume that he would trade another temporary defeat of the same type for a guaranteed end to his ambitions forever. So even Dalinar winning the contest doesn't solve anything, it only buys some time. And time is dross to the immortal Odium, as the Stormfather described.

Wow! Thanks for explaining! Serious dedication in that response!

[Returned he/him]

6 minutes ago, edgyswordname said:

Wow! Thanks for explaining! Serious dedication in that response!

Lol, thanks! They're just my thoughts, I'm sure others will chime in with corrections soon. Welcome to the Shard!

[Frustration]

4 hours ago, edgyswordname said:

This might be a “why didn’t the eagles fly the ring to Mordor” situation,

The answer to that is(and the books make this clear this is a movie problem) that the Fellowship has to sneak into Mordor, Sauron has the Pilantir(the stones that can see things far away) and can sense the ring.

Riding giant eagles with 60+ foot wingspans is not sneaky.

4 hours ago, edgyswordname said:

 but why didn’t Dalinar just leave Odium on Roshar and take as much of humanity as possible with him when it became apparent he couldn’t beat Odium? Too hard to travel through Shadesmar/get off planet, weird oath stuff that wouldn’t keep Odium trapped, etc? 

Because all three shards are bound to Roshar, not just Odium. Dalinar couldn't take people to another planet because he couldn't go there to start with.

[Verdance he/him]

20 minutes ago, Frustration said:

The answer to that is(and the books make this clear this is a movie problem) that the Fellowship has to sneak into Mordor, Sauron has the Pilantir(the stones that can see things far away) and can sense the ring.

Riding giant eagles with 60+ foot wingspans is not sneaky.

yeah that’s why I called it an eagles to Mordor thing, something that seems better than the plot but is actually stupid. Thanks for helping!

[Schizoposting]

The reason why Dalinar didn't just leave Roshar with humanity, is because that would not defeat Odium, and he'd still remain a cosmere wide menace. It's established that within 100 years Odium would be able to conquer the entire cosmere, if nobody were to intervene. That's not to mention all the other problems that people have already pointed out.

[Immortal Platypus]

On 12/31/2025 at 5:28 PM, Schizoposting said:

The reason why Dalinar didn't just leave Roshar with humanity, is because that would not defeat Odium, and he'd still remain a cosmere wide menace. It's established that within 100 years Odium would be able to conquer the entire cosmere, if nobody were to intervene. That's not to mention all the other problems that people have already pointed out.

perhaps that is a reason, but if Dalinar were to move humankind off of Roshar somehow, I think that Odium would still be bound to the system, mitigating what harm he could cause, so I don't think that's the reason.

[Schizoposting]

1 hour ago, Immortal Platypus said:

perhaps that is a reason, but if Dalinar were to move humankind off of Roshar somehow, I think that Odium would still be bound to the system, mitigating what harm he could cause, so I don't think that's the reason.

No, it's explicitly stated that Odium would conquer the cosmere, despite being trapped on Roshar:

Quote

“Interesting,” Nohadon said. “Wouldn’t that give Odium everything he wants? If you willingly serve him, then many of the Radiants will go with you. He would ostensibly be trapped here on Roshar, so the other gods will continue to ignore him—but he’d have access to the finest military in the whole of the cosmere. He’d have time to plan, build, and raise a new force of Fused who aren’t suffering from mental fatigue. In a hundred years or so, he’d be able to launch his armies and conquer everything with ease.”

So, even if Dalinar left Roshar, with all the Azish and Alethi (Taravngian would no doubt forbid those under his rule from leaving), Odium would still be able to build up his armies to conquer the cosmere. That's not to mention that Honor is also trapped on Roshar, so even if he got of his people off world, then Dalinar would be unable to help them further.

[Verdance he/him]

14 minutes ago, Schizoposting said:

No, it's explicitly stated that Odium would conquer the cosmere, despite being trapped on Roshar:

So, even if Dalinar left Roshar, with all the Azish and Alethi (Taravngian would no doubt forbid those under his rule from leaving), Odium would still be able to build up his armies to conquer the cosmere. That's not to mention that Honor is also trapped on Roshar, so even if he got of his people off world, then Dalinar would be unable to help them further.

Okay, thanks for clearing that up. Also highlights the problem of low technological development on Scadrial, then. As powerful as Allomancy is, I bet a Mistborn would have trouble with even one Radiant, depending of course on which order and ideal.

[Immortal Platypus]

34 minutes ago, Schizoposting said:

No, it's explicitly stated that Odium would conquer the cosmere, despite being trapped on Roshar:

So, even if Dalinar left Roshar, with all the Azish and Alethi (Taravngian would no doubt forbid those under his rule from leaving), Odium would still be able to build up his armies to conquer the cosmere. That's not to mention that Honor is also trapped on Roshar, so even if he got of his people off world, then Dalinar would be unable to help them further.

hmm. I forgot about that. For the record, however, information provided by unreliable narrators (potentially including Nohadon, idk how certain what he said is) can be wrong, so take it with a grain of salt. And that assumes Dalinar works with him (even while resisting him, at least subtly), and that they can get stormlight off-world to power Radiants. But it was a much more major reason than I remembered, so that's my bad.