New radiant orders

[Through the living Wahr He/Him]

Just curious what others think about this. Do you think individual true spren could create new orders resulting in spren types that are associated with mulltiple orders and the individual spren decides what order it grants? Or would that require a new kind of True Spren?

Edited December 15, 2025 by Wahrheitswächter

[Guest]

I'm not sure, but it's a good theory @Wahrheitswächter

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Wahrheitswächter said:

Just curious what others think about this. Do you think individual true spren could create new orders resulting in spren types that are associated with mulltiple orders and the individual spren decides what order it grants? Or would that require a new kind of True Spren?

Highly unlikely and probably impossible without a new type of True Spren and some Bondsmithing work. The problem is that the Radiant Orders were formalized and bound by Ishar, thus the system wouldn't allow anything new to arise and become part of it just like that. 

Spoiler

Questioner

Could new Orders eventually be formed?

Brandon Sanderson

This is plausibly possible but highly, highly unlikely. A lot of things are possible in the Stormlight Archive that are highly unlikely. So I rarely say "no," because I built the magic systems of the cosmere to be able to do a lot of things, 'cause I knew I was going to be writing in a lot of different worlds. Which means that very few things are completely off-limits. But there's a lot of things that are unlikely to happen.

Tor Instagram Livestream (Nov. 25, 2020)

 

[Argenti he/him]

2 hours ago, Wahrheitswächter said:

Just curious what others think about this. Do you think individual true spren could create new orders resulting in spren types that are associated with mulltiple orders and the individual spren decides what order it grants? Or would that require a new kind of True Spren?

You would need new truespren- or maybe some other kind of similar splinter (Seons?)- and a Bondsmith. 

[Immortal Platypus]

9 hours ago, alder24 said:

The problem is that the Radiant Orders were formalized and bound by Ishar

is that in a WOB or in a book? I don't remember reading that at all

[Nitpicking]

2 hours ago, Ookla the Inactive said:

is that in a WOB or in a book? I don't remember reading that at all

IIRC Syl says (in Rhythm of War?) that when Surgebinders started appearing, Honor restricted them. In one of the visions Tanavast enumerates the Radiants as a weapon he developed against Rayse.

[Immortal Platypus]

4 hours ago, Nitpicking said:

IIRC Syl says (in Rhythm of War?) that when Surgebinders started appearing, Honor restricted them. In one of the visions Tanavast enumerates the Radiants as a weapon he developed against Rayse.

I do remember them being restricted by Honor, I don't recall Ishar doing much. that's what I was wondering about

[alder24]

14 hours ago, Ookla the Inactive said:

is that in a WOB or in a book? I don't remember reading that at all

7 hours ago, Ookla the Inactive said:

I do remember them being restricted by Honor, I don't recall Ishar doing much. that's what I was wondering about

Either by Ishar or Honor's hand, the Radiants were formalized and bound in a restrictive structure that prevented new Orders from appearing. Ishar however, was crucial in the creation of Knights Radiant, there is a reason why they are often called Ishar’s Knights. 

WoR ch 42 epigraphs:

Quote

But as for Ishi’Elin, his was the part most important at their inception; he readily understood the implications of Surges being granted to men, and caused organization to be thrust upon them; as having too great power, he let it be known that he would destroy each and every one, unless they agreed to be bound by precepts and laws.

RoW I-1:

Quote

“Your abilities are what made the original Oathpact,” she said. “And they existed—and were named—long before the Knights Radiant were founded. A Bondsmith Connected the Heralds to Braize, made them immortal, and locked our enemies away. A Bondsmith bound other Surges and brought humans to Roshar, fleeing their dying world. A Bondsmith created—or at least discovered—the Nahel bond: the ability of spren and humans to join together into something better. You Connect things, Dalinar. Realms. Ideas. People.”

WaT ch 120:

Quote

RAYSE AND I HAD BEEN IN AN ARMS RACE. FIRST HIS FUSED, THEN MY HERALDS, THEN HIS UNMADE, THEN MY RADIANTS—WHICH WERE NOT MY CONSCIOUS CREATION, BUT FORMED BY PIECES OF ME WORKING INDEPENDENTLY. I CRAFTED THEIR OATHS TO MAXIMIZE THEIR ABILITIES, PER KOR’S CONTRACT AND ISHAR’S ADVICE. THAT ONE UNDERSTOOD THE WAYS OF GODS AS FEW MORTALS EVER HAD.

 

Spoiler

Argent

In the Syl interlude in Rhythm of War, she is speaking with Dalinar about his powers and the things those powers have done in the past. And what she says is "a Bondsmith bound other Surges". First of all, what other Surges?

Brandon Sanderson

One potential interpretation for you on this, remember they use Surge and spren sometimes interchangeably in-world. Just making you aware of that.

Argent

Yeah I'm aware of that. Bound other Surges....

Brandon Sanderson

That might be what she's talking about. I'm not guaranteeing it.

[...]

JordanCon 2021 (July 17, 2021)