Can you get to the Spiritual Realm via the Shadesmar Sun?

[Epicdaf]

I recently came across this quote from another topic on the forums: 

"- The white "sun" visible in Shadesmar (and in Shallan's chapter headers) is the Spiritual Realm"

So my question is, can you physically access the Spiritual realm by reaching the Sun in Shadesmar or am I really just grasping at straws here?

 

Edited December 11, 2025 by Epicdaf

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, Epicdaf said:

I recently came across this quote from another topic on the forums: 

"- The white "sun" visible in Shadesmar (and in Shallan's chapter headers) is the Spiritual Realm"

Keep in mind that is a fan theory, not confirmed. Brandon has RAFOed if the sun represents the Spiritual Realm, the Beyond, neither or something else. That said, we have no information on any way to actually reach the "sun" because it will remain in the same distant horizon regarless of day, time, or distnce travelled. 

Coppermind: 

Quote

The sky in Shadesmar is pitch black^[23] with no moon or stars.^[31][27] On the horizon sits a small, frail,^[27] white sun,^[32][25] that provides enough light to illuminate the lands but not the sky, despite appearing almost too weak to achieve even this.^[27] The sun does not move or change regardless of time of day or distance traveled - because of this, Shadesmar does not have any natural day and night cycle.^[33][31][34] 

Hope that helps

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

2 hours ago, Epicdaf said:

I recently came across this quote from another topic on the forums: 

"- The white "sun" visible in Shadesmar (and in Shallan's chapter headers) is the Spiritual Realm"

So my question is, can you physically access the Spiritual realm by reaching the Sun in Shadesmar or am I really just grasping at straws here?

 

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

Keep in mind that is a fan theory, not confirmed. Brandon has RAFOed if the sun represents the Spiritual Realm, the Beyond, neither or something else. That said, we have no information on any way to actually reach the "sun" because it will remain in the same distant horizon regarless of day, time, or distnce travelled. 

Coppermind: 

Hope that helps

There is a quote in Secret History, and I dont have my book with me, so i cant find the exact quote but

Spoiler

Preservation (or Fuzz) explains the realms with an analogy where the spiritual realm is a sun shining on the physical realm and the cognitive realm is the beams inbetween

 

[Treamayne]

15 minutes ago, Ookla the Dokja said:

There is a quote in Secret History, and I dont have my book with me, so i cant find the exact quote but

  Hide contents

Preservation (or Fuzz) explains the realms with an analogy where the spiritual realm is a sun shining on the physical realm and the cognitive realm is the beams inbetween

Precisely - that's often misunerstood because it is an analogy for Investiture and the Three Realms. M:SH P2C1:

Spoiler

Kelsier sighed. “Then why was he able to come to the world of the dead?”

“It’s not the world of the dead. It’s the world of the mind. Men—all things, truly—are like a ray of light. The floor is the Physical Realm, where that light pools. The sun is the Spiritual Realm, where it begins. This Realm, the Cognitive Realm, is the space between where that beam stretches.”

The metaphor barely made any sense to him. 

All things exist in Three Realms - like a Ray of Light, all things originate in the Spirtiual Realm (Spirit Web - like a sun is the source of the Ray of Light). The Cognitive is the filter that determines how the source is expressed, like the Medium through which light passes. The Physical Realm is the Expression of all of that (pooling in the metaphor). 

None of that has anything to do with the Shadesmar "Sun" (which isn't even visible for this conversation, since it takes place in the Shadesmar Cave while Kelsier is trapped in the Well).

Hope that helps

Edited December 11, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

33 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Precisely - that's often misunerstood because it is an analogy for Investiture and the Three Realms. M:SH P2C1:

  Reveal hidden contents

Kelsier sighed. “Then why was he able to come to the world of the dead?”

“It’s not the world of the dead. It’s the world of the mind. Men—all things, truly—are like a ray of light. The floor is the Physical Realm, where that light pools. The sun is the Spiritual Realm, where it begins. This Realm, the Cognitive Realm, is the space between where that beam stretches.”

The metaphor barely made any sense to him. 

All things exist in Three Realms - like a Ray of Light, all things originate in the Spirtiual Realm (Spirit Web - like a sun is the source of the Ray of Light). The Cognitive is the filter that determines how the source is expressed, like the Medium through which light passes. The Physical Realm is the Expression of all of that (pooling in the metaphor). 

None of that has anything to do with the Shadesmar "Sun" (which isn't even visible for this conversation, since it takes place in the Shadesmar Cave while Kelsier is trapped in the Well).

Hope that helps

I know it was a metaphor, i just thought it might be connected to the sun, but knew that it wasn't confirmed.

[Through the Living Wrath he/him]

Wait

@Treamayne

Is this sun specific to Roshar?

What happens when you move out of the subastral? (As refered to by the coppermind) Can it be used as a compass? If so, then is it the Grand Knell (this is not likely at all)? Is it the Origin of Songs?

Edited December 11, 2025 by Ookla the Ansible

[Treamayne]

2 minutes ago, Ookla the Ansible said:

Wait

@Treamayne

Is this sun specific to Roshar?

What happens when you move out of the subastral? (As refered to by the coppermind) Can it be used as a compass? If so, then is it the Grand Knell (this is not likely at all)? Is it the Origin of Songs?

Nope - M:SH P1C1:

Spoiler

He managed to look up. That same thick greyness shifted all around him. A nothingness? No, he could see shapes in it, shadows. Hills? And high in the sky, some kind of light. A tiny sun perhaps, as seen through dense grey clouds.

It was hard to see on Scadrian Shadesmar because of the Misty nature of the subastral, but Kelsier noticed it right away.

7 minutes ago, Ookla the Ansible said:

Can it be used as a compass?

It does not appear in the space between Shardworlds. Only once a region of Shadesmar has developed enough to form world-specific "geography" - Scadrial=Mist, Roshar=Gems/Beads, Nalthis=Color(presumably - based on the "Expanse of Vibrance" name), etc. 
M:SH P5C1:

Spoiler

He’d hoped to have the sun back once Ruin vanished from the sky, but after walking far enough out, he seemed to leave his world behind—and the sun with it. The sky here was nothing but empty blackness.

That's why the Grand Knell is so important. For more detail, please see Isles of the Emberdark - which is still in the spoiler period, but can be discussed here.

[Nitpicking]

Saying "It's a metaphor" doesn't rule out something being "physically" real in the Cognitive Realm. Metaphors are a thing cognition uses.

[First of the Tide He/him]

1 hour ago, Nitpicking said:

Saying "It's a metaphor" doesn't rule out something being "physically" real in the Cognitive Realm. Metaphors are a thing cognition uses.

M:SH Spoilers 

Spoiler

Counterpoint! It still can't be physically real in the cognitive realm, because the metaphor is made by fuzz, who's cognition isn't in the cognitive realm, it's in the spiritual realm, as most aspects of most shards/shardbearers are.

Edited December 12, 2025 by First of the Tide