Dead People Ascending (Spoilers for Secret History and Rhythm of War)

[dstokes7]

In Mistborn: Secret History, Ruin tells Kelsier that he will be a weak Vessel for Preservation because he doesn't have a connection to the Physical Realm, on account of his being dead. But in Rhythm of War, right before Taravangian ascends to Odium, he realizes that Szeth has killed him in the Physical Realm. That means that, at the time Taravangian takes up the power of Odium, he is also dead. So why doesn't Taravangian seem to have a problem controlling the power seeing as he was a cognitive shadow when he took up the power, just like Kelsier was?

[Treamayne]

32 minutes ago, dstokes7 said:

In Mistborn: Secret History, Ruin tells Kelsier that he will be a weak Vessel for Preservation because he doesn't have a connection to the Physical Realm, on account of his being dead. But in Rhythm of War, right before Taravangian ascends to Odium, he realizes that Szeth has killed him in the Physical Realm. That means that, at the time Taravangian takes up the power of Odium, he is also dead. So why doesn't Taravangian seem to have a problem controlling the power seeing as he was a cognitive shadow when he took up the power, just like Kelsier was?

Because he was not yet a Cognitive Shadow. Taravangian was in the Spiritual Realm (thanks to Rayse) and the Spiritual Realm does not tie directly to time or place. Kelsier was in the Cognitive Realm when he received the influx of investiture (and implied Command from Fuzz - not confirmed) that made him a Cognitive Shadow. 

Or, to use Ruin's terms - Taravangian's string to the Physical Realm had not yet severed, even if his "body' was dying.

WoB:

Spoiler

R'Shara (paraphrased)

Would Szeth, Wax, and Taravangian be considered fully alive, or are they considered Cognitive Shadows?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

They would be considered alive.

R'Shara (paraphrased)

Even with what happened when Taravangian Ascended?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, he still counts as a fully alive person holding the Shard. He won't have the same trouble as a Cognitive Shadow holding a Shard.

The Most Boring Book Ever release party (Sept. 24, 2024)

Hope that helps

Edited November 25, 2025 by Treamayne
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