Innate Surgebinding Singers

[Trusk'our he/him]

In RoW, Rlain teaches the humans of Urithiru how to use Lifespren to grow crops with the right drumbeat and Stormlight.

I wonder then, could Singers learn to harness Rhythms and Investiture to make the Lesser Spren they've bonded to create a type of smaller scale Surgebinding? 

Perhaps they'd need more of a unique relationship with the Spren they chose to bond, maybe naming and taming it like Navani's scholars did in WaT, allowing for more communication and stronger Connections.

[Treamayne]

6 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

In RoW, Rlain teaches the humans of Urithiru how to use Lifespren to grow crops with the right drumbeat and Stormlight.

I wonder then, could Singers learn to harness Rhythms and Investiture to make the Lesser Spren they've bonded to create a type of smaller scale Surgebinding? 

Perhaps they'd need more of a unique relationship with the Spren they chose to bond, maybe naming and taming it like Navani's scholars did in WaT, allowing for more communication and stronger Connections.

Unlikely, since Honor tied the Surges to Oaths and TrueSpren bonds specifically to limit thier application and prevent another Ashyn. But Roshar's ecology is tied to the Spren and there are likely to be many "hacks" that Singers could teach humans about how to use Rhythms and Light with environmental Spren to encourge certain effects. 

[Nitpicking]

11 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

In RoW, Rlain teaches the humans of Urithiru how to use Lifespren to grow crops with the right drumbeat and Stormlight.

I wonder then, could Singers learn to harness Rhythms and Investiture to make the Lesser Spren they've bonded to create a type of smaller scale Surgebinding? 

Perhaps they'd need more of a unique relationship with the Spren they chose to bond, maybe naming and taming it like Navani's scholars did in WaT, allowing for more communication and stronger Connections.

The Singers do bond with lesser spren, by hosting the spren in their gemhearts. The benefit they get is their forms, everything from nimblelform to Regal, which grant anything from greater strength (workform) to throwing lightning bolts (stormform).

[Trusk'our he/him]

30 minutes ago, Nitpicking said:

The Singers do bond with lesser spren, by hosting the spren in their gemhearts. The benefit they get is their forms, everything from nimblelform to Regal, which grant anything from greater strength (workform) to throwing lightning bolts (stormform).

I know, my wondering is more what if they could do the drumbeat + Investiture trick that they did with Lifespren and crops with the Spren they've bonded to create a new effect. 

I'm sure it depends on whether that Investiture is fundamentally "taken up" when slotted into their Gemheart and provides a Form or whether it can also function like a power (though as you brought up Stormform is an example of both, so I don't think it's impossible).

 

Mostly, I suppose that question is what's really bothering me on a broader Cosmere scale.

Cosmere spoilers: 

Spoiler

Like, for example, take the innate Investiture in an Allomancer or Feruchemist. Is it still providing a static, if small benefit to the Metalborn when not expressed actively, or is it "locked up" to provide benefit only when using a Metalmind or burning metals.

Would that Investiture contribute to the passive benefit of holding Breaths, or are those passive benefits the software that Investiture uses as opposed to Allomancy's and Feruchemy's software to use metals? (Software meaning that the Investiture doesn't provide those perks or powers at a fundamental level but are part of the specific system. Preservation's Investiture can be used in ways that are not Allomancy and Endowment's power is not only in the form of Breaths, presumably)

 

[Jult]

On 10/30/2025 at 11:59 PM, Trusk'our said:

In RoW, Rlain teaches the humans of Urithiru how to use Lifespren to grow crops with the right drumbeat and Stormlight.

I wonder then, could Singers learn to harness Rhythms and Investiture to make the Lesser Spren they've bonded to create a type of smaller scale Surgebinding? 

Perhaps they'd need more of a unique relationship with the Spren they chose to bond, maybe naming and taming it like Navani's scholars did in WaT, allowing for more communication and stronger Connections.

"Surgebinding" might be the wrong choice of words since these effects would be outside the Surges. But this scene is very exciting to me. Kaladin describes it as an "organic machine" that operates similarly to a fabrial.

I agree with you that a similar effect should be achievable with all spren. However, the spren need Stormlight to make it happen. So, I think your hypothesized Singer would need to carry some infused gems around with him. Which isn't a major issue since Singer fashion tends to already include carrying gems on your person.

I also wonder if the type of gems being used in the process matter as well. The lifespren the ardents were using to grow food were being fed Stormlight specifically from Emeralds, which are associated with the Pulp Essence and are used to transform plant matter when using Soulcasters.

So, maybe to properly 'level up' your Stormform capabilities, you need to feed Stormlight to your stormspren exclusively from Rubies (Spark Essence)?

This dependency on specific gem types and essences may explain why no one has discovered this yet.

[Xanpheon]

On 10/31/2025 at 4:36 PM, Trusk'our said:

 

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Like, for example, take the innate Investiture in an Allomancer or Feruchemist. Is it still providing a static, if small benefit to the Metalborn when not expressed actively, or is it "locked up" to provide benefit only when using a Metalmind or burning metals.

Would that Investiture contribute to the passive benefit of holding Breaths, or are those passive benefits the software that Investiture uses as opposed to Allomancy's and Feruchemy's software to use metals? (Software meaning that the Investiture doesn't provide those perks or powers at a fundamental level but are part of the specific system. Preservation's Investiture can be used in ways that are not Allomancy and Endowment's power is not only in the form of Breaths, presumably)

 

Spoiler

We know that full Mistborn tend to have almost supernatural grace and balance in a way that regular Thugs wouldn't, but the main place we see this is in Vin, Kelsier, and Zane - all people who have very good reason to be burning their metals, at least a little, near constantly. Kelsier because he's keeping himself ready for attacks by the Inquisitors, Vin because she's protecting the new Final Empire, and Zane because... well, Zane. I don't think we can use that as direct proof of the passive investiture affecting them innately.

The thing to bear in mind is that in Feruchemy and Allomancy, the only time your body is suffused with Investiture is when you're actively using it. Just having the metals inside you does not fill you with Investiture, nor does wearing a filled metalmind. Burning the metal opens a door to preservations power letting it empower you as a trade for the sacrificed material, with the metal determining which door opens. That Investiture is not innately part of the metal (unless it's a god metal but they're their own thing). Same thing for Feruchemy - the Investiture is being drawn in a direct 1:1 trade from the potential energy stored in your metalmind, but when not using them they don't just leak. Otherwise we'd have seen instances of that happening, like Sazed with his Copperminds or the Bands of Mourning having lost most of their charge in the Temple rather than just being used up for some unknown purpose.

Being highly invested does clearly have affects on the person who is holding the investiture - Stormlight alone is a good example of that, as does the existence of the Elantrians - but it would not explain everything. Breaths are their own resource that seems to have a spark of life, almost, in it - and thus I do not think that just being highly Invested can do the same thing as the Heightenings.