Adonalsium Stuff (If somebody could explain why I'm wrong that'd be great)

[Clarkmon22 He/Him]

DISCLAIMER: I haven't read Emberdark yet, and I haven't done much research on this subject on this forum, so I might be saying something somebody else has already said, or that we already know.

That aside, In WaT, Dalinar meets the Cognitive and Spiritual (I guess) being that is forming within the power of Honor. I believe that, like Honor formed a conscousness, Adonalsium was originally just a BIG pile of slightly aware Investiture that, over time, developed maybe not a personality, but at least a bit of Intent (enough to create/influence the Rosharan system and Yolen and stuff). 

I also think that maybe, just maybe, this is what's going to happen in Dragonsteel. Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of the idea of like Hoid or the Blackthorn taking up becoming Adonalsium 2.0, but... I think that there was a true purpose to that scene, and that maybe all shards, even the ones that are just big piles of Investiture lying around in the cognitive realm (*cough* *Devotion and Dominion* *cough* *cough*) maybe might like come together. I don't really think that the dead ones would have any sort of brainpower, but the other shards might be like developing too (they are all the same age)

Also, with the whole "glass window" thing, I think that they could meld together, and that one of the reasons that Harmony doesn't work the best is because they don't have the other Aspects to balance him out truly (like if Ruin-Preservation-Autonomy was a thing, the two might cancel each other, but the Vessel could act with Autonomy)

If somebody could explain why I'm wrong that'd be great.

Edited August 5, 2025 by Clarkmon22

[NerdyAarakocra They/Them]

On 8/4/2025 at 4:27 PM, Clarkmon22 said:

DISCLAIMER: I haven't read Emberdark yet, and I haven't done much research on this subject on this forum, so I might be saying something somebody else has already said, or that we already know.

That aside, In WaT, Dalinar meets the Cognitive and Spiritual (I guess) being that is forming within the power of Honor. I believe that, like Honor formed a conscousness, Adonalsium was originally just a BIG pile of slightly aware Investiture that, over time, developed maybe not a personality, but at least a bit of Intent (enough to create/influence the Rosharan system and Yolen and stuff). 

I also think that maybe, just maybe, this is what's going to happen in Dragonsteel. Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of the idea of like Hoid or the Blackthorn taking up becoming Adonalsium 2.0, but... I think that there was a true purpose to that scene, and that maybe all shards, even the ones that are just big piles of Investiture lying around in the cognitive realm (*cough* *Devotion and Dominion* *cough* *cough*) maybe might like come together. I don't really think that the dead ones would have any sort of brainpower, but the other shards might be like developing too (they are all the same age)

Also, with the whole "glass window" thing, I think that they could meld together, and that one of the reasons that Harmony doesn't work the best is because they don't have the other Aspects to balance him out truly (like if Ruin-Preservation-Autonomy was a thing, the two might cancel each other, but the Vessel could act with Autonomy)

If somebody could explain why I'm wrong that'd be great.

Quick note: Dragonsteel is a (planned) prequel that covers the Shattering of Adonalsium.

My understanding is it takes more work to put things back together than it does to take them apart: this is why nobody has Ascended to Devotion or Dominion. As such, I doubt that Adonalsium being reformed would happen without a character's help.

[Clarkmon22 He/Him]

12 hours ago, NerdyAarakocra said:

Quick note: Dragonsteel is a (planned) prequel that covers the Shattering of Adonalsium.

Isn't Dragonsteel going into the future as well?

12 hours ago, NerdyAarakocra said:

My understanding is it takes more work to put things back together than it does to take them apart: this is why nobody has Ascended to Devotion or Dominion. As such, I doubt that Adonalsium being reformed would happen without a character's help.

Then what was the point of the Honor scene?

Edited August 11, 2025 by Clarkmon22

[Clarkmon22 He/Him]

also I swear I read a WoB that said there was going to be a prequel dragonsteel book and then more future books that happen around Mistborn Era 4

but I've been looking for it for half an hour and can't find it

Edited August 11, 2025 by Clarkmon22

[NerdyAarakocra They/Them]

8 hours ago, Clarkmon22 said:

Isn't Dragonsteel going into the future as well?

Then what was the point of the Honor scene?

The sequels to Dragonsteel happen post-shattering, although I don't know when.

Critically, Honor wasn't shattered. Honor was a whole Shard without a Vessel for a long time, which allowed it to grow a consciousness.

[Clarkmon22 He/Him]

didn't it technically have somewhat of a vessel in the Stormfather?

[Clarkmon22 He/Him]

also, I think one of the messages Brandon has been trying to push is that no one would make a good shard

like literally everyone who tries SUCKS

and they acknowledge that

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

2 hours ago, Clarkmon22 said:

didn't it technically have somewhat of a vessel in the Stormfather?

First, no Double Posting,

Second, The Stormfather was not a vessel, the vessel died, and the Stormfather was an Invested Cognitive Shadow

7 minutes ago, Clarkmon22 said:

also, I think one of the messages Brandon has been trying to push is that no one would make a good shard

like literally everyone who tries SUCKS

and they acknowledge that

Third, that is the point of this thread is that the shards will develop their own cognitive vessel and become Adonalsium without a Central Vessel.

[Clarkmon22 He/Him]

ok sorry abt double posting, but are you saying that if Kelsier took up a shard he wouldn't be considered a vessel at all?

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

4 minutes ago, Clarkmon22 said:

ok sorry abt double posting, but are you saying that if Kelsier took up a shard he wouldn't be considered a vessel at all?

That's not what I'm saying.

The Stormfather never took up the shard.

After the shard's original Vessel died, his Cognitive Shadow became the Stormfather.

The Stormfather then never took up the shard again

Instead, the Stormfather became an Invested Cognitive Shadow

And Never Took Up The Shard

[Clarkmon22 He/Him]

oh ok so he was working in tandem with the power of honor

Edited August 12, 2025 by Clarkmon22

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

3 minutes ago, Clarkmon22 said:

oh ok so he was working in tandem with the power of honor

Yeah kind of.

[Ink and Embers Any pronouns]

Perhaps you would need one vessel who was able to take up all 16 shards (somehow), and then give that power up so it could re-become self-aware, if you wanted to attempt to recreate Adonalsium? Although who that could be, I don't know. 

[Treamayne]

On 8/11/2025 at 11:12 AM, Clarkmon22 said:

On 8/10/2025 at 10:24 PM, NerdyAarakocra said:

Quick note: Dragonsteel is a (planned) prequel that covers the Shattering of Adonalsium.

Isn't Dragonsteel going into the future as well?

No. Dragonsteel will be the second-to-last Series written, being released before Mistborn Era 4 and telling the story of Hoid's Origins and the Shattering. You seem to be conflating real world timing with in-story timeframe. WoBs:

Spoiler

Quote

The Chaos Geek

Is there a plan for a book focusing on Hoid or will he always remain an enigma?

Brandon Sanderson

The final Mistborn sequence will have him as a main character, as will the Dragonsteel prequel novels.

#SandersonChat Twitter Q&A with Audible.com (Feb. 4, 2016)

Quote

CatGrylls

Have you written/will you write something equivalent to the Silmarillion for the cosmere?

Brandon Sanderson

It's not impossible, but I'm not planning on it currently. There WILL be a prequel series, dealing with the events leading to the shattering of Adonalsium, but will focus mostly on Hoid and not really be equivalent.

baytepp92

Is that planned to be completed/released after the main overall Cosmere story is completed? Or will it lead up to the finale of the main Cosmere stories?

Peter Ahlstrom

It will lead up to the finale.

/r/fantasy AMA 2017 (June 6, 2017)

Quote

Questioner

Is it still the plan to write Dragonsteel last?

Brandon Sanderson

Next-to-last. Mistborn final Era will be... yeah, Mistborn 4 will be last.

Idaho Falls signing (July 21, 2018)

Quote

Questioner

Adonalsium, did he have his own world before?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, that world is the book Dragonsteel, which will be written as Hoid's backstory. That's a ways off, but it will still come. Chronologically it's first, but I'm going to write it right before I write the last Mistborn series, which is Mistborn Era 4.

The Great American Read: Other Worlds with Brandon Sanderson (Oct. 25, 2018)

Quote

Questioner

A lot of franchises out there today are kind of focused on continuing as long as possible, maybe making as much money as possible. I was wondering if there will be a definitive end to the Cosmere overall at some point.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, it’s a great question. So, I can say there will be, yes. I have planned a definitive end. The asterisk I’m gonna put on there: if I’m still around after that’s done, I might go write little side stories. You might get more things like the Secret Projects that are taking place. But the Cosmere itself has a definitive end.

Right now, the plan is: Era 3 Ghostbloods of Mistborn with the Elantris sequels; then Era 2 of Stormlight; then Dragonsteel, the Hoid origin story; then Era 4 being the end. There might be a cyberpunk Mistborn in there; it’s totally possible. But the Space Age era (it could end up being Era 5 if we do Cyberpunk), that has been plotted as the end point. That’s what we’re shooting toward. And I plan that to be a definitive ending.

That said, I don’t know what I would do with myself if I weren’t writing, so maybe I’d be like, "The Cosmere is done. Here are some stories that are not in the Cosmere, like Rithmatist, but really feel like they could be," or something like that. We’ll see. Let’s just focus on getting through. There’s a whole lot of writing there. We just hit the halfway point, and, you know, I’m turning 50 next year. So, I'm gonna keep going.

Dragonsteel Nexus 2024 (Dec. 6, 2024)

 

Hope that helps

Edited August 25, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Xanpheon]

On 8/25/2025 at 7:15 AM, Ink and Embers said:

Perhaps you would need one vessel who was able to take up all 16 shards (somehow), and then give that power up so it could re-become self-aware, if you wanted to attempt to recreate Adonalsium? Although who that could be, I don't know. 

Even then, the chance that you find someone who embodies each possible intent well enough to function as a Vessel - at the same time managing to pull all of them in while balancing their intents against each other and not exploding - is so vanishingly low that I doubt it's actually possible.

You've got to bear in mind, not only do have to deal with the contradictory nature of opposed shards - Ruin and Preservation, for example - but you also have to deal with the fact that the various intents of the Shards can involve hating the idea of fusing with others (Odium, for example, and likely Autonomy). 

I suspect that not only is reforming something shattered, it may be impossible at this point. Splintered Shards are still the same intent, nominally. The various shards are very explicitly not, anymore.

[ThroughTheLivingIlliterate He/Him]

On 11/10/2025 at 4:38 AM, Xanpheon said:

Even then, the chance that you find someone who embodies each possible intent well enough to function as a Vessel - at the same time managing to pull all of them in while balancing their intents against each other and not exploding - is so vanishingly low that I doubt it's actually possible.

Well, we know that at some point someone was able to do it. We also know that the intents of the shards can be directed (We see this with Dalinar and Honor). Also one main plot point in Brandon's book is the acceptance that no one can be perfect, I mean the Sibling bonding with Navani was literally the acceptance that no one would completely embody the ideologies of something shaped by human perception. 

Edited November 11, 2025 by IlliterateDragon

[Clarkmon22 He/Him]

1 hour ago, IlliterateDragon said:

Well, we know that at some point someone was able to do it. We also know that the intents of the shards can be directed (We see this with Dalinar and Honor). Also one main plot point in Brandon's book is the acceptance that no one can be perfect, I mean the Sibling bonding with Navani was literally the acceptance that no one would completely embody the ideologies of something shaped by human perception. 

we do not know that someone was able to do it. Arcanum is being wonky right now, but we have no idea the origins of Adonalsium or if he (/she/they/it) was a human, sho del, dragon, or pure Investiture. I think that if the OG Ado hadn't shattered, it ould have been really hard/impossible for anyone to take up the full sixteen without some sort of magical preparation, and even if they picked it up they might just have the power of Harmony.  

[ThroughTheLivingIlliterate He/Him]

1 hour ago, Clarkmon22 said:

we do not know that someone was able to do it. Arcanum is being wonky right now, but we have no idea the origins of Adonalsium or if he (/she/they/it) was a human, sho del, dragon, or pure Investiture. I think that if the OG Ado hadn't shattered, it ould have been really hard/impossible for anyone to take up the full sixteen without some sort of magical preparation, and even if they picked it up they might just have the power of Harmony.  

I like to look at it this way. The human mind is complex and has many intents at any time. I don't think it's necessarily handling many intents that is the problem, but handling singular intents that is difficult.

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

3 hours ago, IlliterateDragon said:

I like to look at it this way. The human mind is complex and has many intents at any time. I don't think it's necessarily handling many intents that is the problem, but handling singular intents that is difficult.

Maybe thats why a shard's inent slowly takes over their brain, normal humans cant cope with just one.

[Shatter He/Him]

My personal belief of what is going to happen in Dragonsteel, is that Hoid will destroy all the Shards and himself in the process.

On 8/4/2025 at 4:27 PM, Clarkmon22 said:

I believe that, like Honor formed a conscousness, Adonalsium was originally just a BIG pile of slightly aware Investiture that, over time, developed maybe not a personality, but at least a bit of Intent (enough to create/influence the Rosharan system and Yolen and stuff). 

Adonalsium was a singular, incomprehensibly powerful entity. When it was “shattered,” it split into 16 Shards. Each Shard is Investiture focused around a specific intent or aspect of Adonalsium’s original power. Honor forming a cognitive/spiritual presence on Roshar is not exactly the same as shards forming consciousness from Investiture. Shards already have a Vessel, and the “personality” of the shard is directly tied to the Vessel. Investiture itself is usually reactive or semi-conscious, but it doesn’t spontaneously develop intent unless there’s a conscious influence behind it. So Adonalsium itself wasn’t just a pile of Investiture, gradually “learning to think.” It was likely already a super-conscious entity. The shards inherited intent from Adonalsium plus the choices of the Vessels.

On 8/4/2025 at 4:27 PM, Clarkmon22 said:

[M]aybe all shards, even the ones that are just big piles of Investiture lying around in the cognitive realm (*cough* *Devotion and Dominion* *cough* *cough*) maybe might like come together. I don't really think that the dead ones would have any sort of brainpower, but the other shards might be like developing too (they are all the same age)

Dead shards don’t have Vessels to focus them. Investiture can linger and influence things, but they aren’t conscious in the same way. So the “brainpower” of a dead shard is extremely limited. They require a bond to the physical realm. Also, one other problem. As far as we know, Ambition is totally and completely destroyed. 

On 8/4/2025 at 4:27 PM, Clarkmon22 said:

[T]hey could meld together, and that one of the reasons that Harmony doesn't work the best is because they don't have the other Aspects to balance him out truly (like if Ruin-Preservation-Autonomy was a thing, the two might cancel each other, but the Vessel could act with Autonomy)

Harmony is Ruin + Preservation. Hoid explicitly notes that when Shards are paired, the opposing intents tend to cancel and stabilize. Your point is correct that Harmony might be limited without other complementary intents, but there’s no canonical evidence that Shards can “meld” naturally beyond the Vessel actively choosing to merge Investiture. Even then, the risk is extreme (Ruin and Preservation managed because their vessels decided to work together to create Scadrial and were bonded that way. Odium and Honor also work because their vessel made an oath.) Remember, everything requires a Command.

4 hours ago, IlliterateDragon said:

I like to look at it this way. The human mind is complex and has many intents at any time. I don't think it's necessarily handling many intents that is the problem, but handling singular intents that is difficult.

Very good point.

5 hours ago, Clarkmon22 said:

we do not know that someone was able to do it. Arcanum is being wonky right now, but we have no idea the origins of Adonalsium or if he (/she/they/it) was a human, sho del, dragon, or pure Investiture. I think that if the OG Ado hadn't shattered, it ould have been really hard/impossible for anyone to take up the full sixteen without some sort of magical preparation, and even if they picked it up they might just have the power of Harmony.  

Just call Adonalsium 'it'. 

Edited November 12, 2025 by Shatter

[ThroughTheLivingIlliterate He/Him]

Well since we are talking about the nature of the intents of shards, how exactly were these intents formed? We know that spren are based off of people's view of the values they represent, but shards seem not to quite match up with this. I mean the human idea of honor is much different than the forming of bonds between people. So how exactly were these intents formed?

[Treamayne]

44 minutes ago, IlliterateDragon said:

Well since we are talking about the nature of the intents of shards, how exactly were these intents formed? We know that spren are based off of people's view of the values they represent, but shards seem not to quite match up with this. I mean the human idea of honor is much different than the forming of bonds between people. So how exactly were these intents formed?

Unfortunately, that is data Brandon is holding back for the eventual Dragonsteel Trilogy. So we can guess, but evidence is barely more than speculation. 

WoBs:

Spoiler

Quote

stormlightfan70

We know it has been stated that adonalsium could have been shattered into 16 different intents. We also know there is a force out there opposing adanalsium. Did it shatter into those 16 intents because it believed that was the best way to defend against this said force?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO.

/r/books AMA 2015 (June 21, 2015)

Quote

Questioner

I was just wondering if a Shard's intent can change over time without changing holders?

Brandon Sanderson

Without changing holders? The holder can have a slight effect on how the-- a big effect on how the intent is interpreted, but what the intent is stays the same. So it's gonna be filtered. The way it manifests can change, and you'll see that happening, but it is the same intent. When it was broken off, it took a certain thing with it.

Salt Lake City ComicCon 2017 (Sept. 21, 2017)

Quote

Paladin Brewer

Was it necessary that Adonalsium split into sixteen Shards, or was it happenstance?

Brandon Sanderson

I will RAFO that one.

Paladin Brewer

Would the number or intents have been different, if there were more or less people?

Brandon Sanderson

That's all wrapped up in that RAFO. Let's say it's conceivable that the split could have happened in different ways.

Oathbringer Houston signing (Nov. 18, 2017)

Quote

Questioner

Shards. We started with fairly obvious ones, magic wise. Trying to keep this spoiler free, so: Ruin, Preservation, this kind of thing. Then we get the weird ones. Why do we have Shards that can only exist in the mind of a sentient creature? ...Like the concept of Honor can only be done when it's carried out, essentially, by a sentient creature.

Brandon Sanderson

So when I split Adonalsium I said, "I'm going to take aspects of Adonalsium's nature." And this involves personality to me. So the Shattering of Adonalsium was primal forces attached to certain aspects of personality. And so I view every one of them this way. And when I wrote Mistborn we had Ruin and Preservation. They are the primal forces of entropy and whatever you call the opposite, staying-the-same-ism-y. Like, you've got these two contrasts, between things changing and things not changing. And then humans do have a part, there's a personality. Ruin is a charged term for something that actually is the way that life exists. And Preservation is a charged term for stasis, for staying the same. And those are the personality aspects, and the way they are viewed by people and by the entity that was Adonalsium.

So I view this for all of them. Like, Honor is the sense of being bound by rules, even when those rules, you wouldn't have to be bound by. And there's this sense that that is noble, that's the honor aspect to it, but there's also something not honorable about Honor if taken from the other direction. So a lot of them do kind of have this both-- cultural component, I would say, that is trying to represent something that is also natural. And not all of them are gonna have a 100% balance between those two things, I would say, because there's only so many fundamental laws of the universe that I can ascribe personalities to in that way. 

So I find Honor very interesting, but I find Autonomy a very interesting one for the exact same reason. What does autonomy mean? We attach a lot to it, but what is the actual, if you get rid of the charged terms, what does it mean? And this is where you end up with things like Odium claiming "I am all emotion." Rather than-- But then there's a charged term for it that is associated with this Shard. I'm not going to tell you whether he's right or not, but he has an argument. 

Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018)

Quote

Questioner

Are the Intents of all the Shards related to the individuals who were involved in the Shattering?

Brandon Sanderson

"Related to"? Slightly, but not as much as you probably would think.

FanX 2021 (Sept. 16, 2021)

 

Hope that helps

[ThroughTheLivingIlliterate He/Him]

11 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Hope that helps

I mean it probably helped as much as Brandon wanted it to.

[Clarkmon22 He/Him]

1 hour ago, IlliterateDragon said:

Well since we are talking about the nature of the intents of shards, how exactly were these intents formed? We know that spren are based off of people's view of the values they represent, but shards seem not to quite match up with this. I mean the human idea of honor is much different than the forming of bonds between people. So how exactly were these intents formed?

probably the perception of Ado? idk

 

Edited November 12, 2025 by Clarkmon22

[ThroughTheLivingIlliterate He/Him]

4 minutes ago, Clarkmon22 said:

probably the perception of Ado? idk

Actually, that would be quite interesting, especially if the Nohadon being Adonalsium Theory has any merit. I don't know how to quote specific topics, but ultimately Nohadon has taken specific interest in Dalinar, and so far the only person to have altered a shard's intent has been Dalinar. Again, expounding on the Nohadon theory, maybe Nohadon has realized that the intents are too strict, and need to allow for more wiggle room.