WE KILLED YOU

[listerfeend]

OK, apologies if this has been asked already, the search doesn't really seem to be working for me right now, but I was just having a conversation with my buddy, and something jumped back out at me that I have speculated on in the past, and now makes even less sense than it did before. 

When Dalinar first opens Honor's perpendicularity, ROdium is mega shook, and exclaims something along the lines of  "HOW TF YOU DO THAT? WE KILLED YOU!"

At the time, there was some speculation that maybe Cultivation and Odium teamed up on Honor for some reason or another, but, now we know, definitively, that is not case. We also know that there was no "WE" in the death of Tanavast, so...why did Odium react this way? What does he mean "We killed you"? This doesn't make much sense to me, after reading WaT

[Petrichor He/Him]

I interpreted "WE KILLED YOU" as more of Rayse and the power of odium itself being shocked that there was any remnants of Tanavast left at all. it's been Talked around multiple times in a few WOB and heavily insinuated in WOT that the shard itself and the shards vessel dont have the same intent and "conscious". Point proven with how Honor reviled Tanavast at the end. 

I also really like the theory going around that the unmade are made from splinters of shards odium has shattered. If that's true then one of the unmades could be made from a splinter of Honor, Rayse and Odium were befuddled to see another splinter of honor with Tanavast's Cognitive shadow practically stapled onto it  after he thought him gone for several millennia. 

Edited August 19, 2025 by Petrichor
spelling errors

[Xanpheon]

The thing to bear in mind is that every Shard, not just the composite shards like Retribution and Harmony, are two separate "things" occupying one entity. You have the original mortal, the Vessel, mind and soul expanded to unimaginable extents by the power they now hold - and the power, the Shard itself.

While Shards are not necessarily conscious in the same way that mortals are or even Vessels are, they do have their own volition, desires, and needs - mostly tied to their Intent.

The shard of Odium (with some impact from Honour, potentially, but primarily Odium) is what drove Taravangian to evaporate Hoid in the immediate aftermath of his Ascension as Retribution. Hoid explicitly calls out that "The power" would identify him as the only threat to it on that planet - not the Vessel, but the power itself.

Considering this, it's not unreasonable to assert that because the Shard and the Vessel are two nominally aligned forces, in times of great stress and fear - especially when the Vessel is someone like Rayse - for them to express themselves as a collective. Especially when there may have been two separate reasons for wanting to kill Tanavast/Honour.

[Jult]

This is probably our most recent discussion of the same subject (careful though - it's in the full Cosmere spoilers board):

It hasn't been made clear what Rayse was referring to here. It does feel clear to me from WaT Ch 124 that Rayse knew he only killed Tanavast and not Honor. So, I really doubt he was referring to Honor.

Edited November 4, 2025 by Jult
spoilers

[TacoBellChoutaMeal]

“Araki Forgot”

[earthexile]

It occurs to me that Dalinar's Perpendicularity did something like Renarin's strange Illumination, showing Rayse/Odium something unbearable about his own choices and existence. All things are present in the Spiritual, time is not a factor, and Dalinar has some kind of Connection to some sacred force that seems to transcend the Shards. Rayse may have felt the presence of his God in that moment, the being he murdered, the being he never thought he'd have to look in the eye again.