Cultivation VS Ruin

[TruthwatchingRadiant He/Him]

So do you guys think Cultivation would’ve done a better job resisting Ruin than Preservation did? Leras tried his hardest to work around Ati’s plans for Scadrial. I feel like one of the main points is that Preservation couldn’t combat Ruin the way another Shard could. There some synonyms of cultivation that I feel serve to back this. The ones I found are: culture, education, civilization, accomplishment, and refinement. 
These strike me as Ruin’s direct opposite, and with Cultivation not being as limited to, um, unpreserving as Preservation, I think that if Cultivation somehow came into contact with Ruin, she could beat him. Thoughts?

Sorry, I think I stuck this under the wrong topic.

[KaladinsSenseOfHumourSpren He/Him]

Um... yeah. I'm reporting.

But, anyway. The only reason Ruin could've been resisted at all is Ruin himself, or more specifically, Ati. Ati wrestled Ruin's Intent into the least destructive version of itself.

[Jult]

3 hours ago, KaladinsSenseOfHumorSpren said:

The only reason Ruin could've been resisted at all is Ruin himself, or more specifically, Ati. Ati wrestled Ruin's Intent into the least destructive version of itself.

Always love an Ati appreciation post!

16 hours ago, TruthwatchingRadiant said:

So do you guys think Cultivation would’ve done a better job resisting Ruin than Preservation did? Leras tried his hardest to work around Ati’s plans for Scadrial. I feel like one of the main points is that Preservation couldn’t combat Ruin the way another Shard could. There some synonyms of cultivation that I feel serve to back this. The ones I found are: culture, education, civilization, accomplishment, and refinement. 
These strike me as Ruin’s direct opposite, and with Cultivation not being as limited to, um, unpreserving as Preservation, I think that if Cultivation somehow came into contact with Ruin, she could beat him. Thoughts?

Sorry, I think I stuck this under the wrong topic.

This is very interesting question. I want to preface my response by saying I draw a pretty hard line between Vessels and Shards. Especially in this case because I don't think Ati or Koravellium would be very in sync with their Shards' Intents in this scenario. I think Koravellium would have really struggled against the Intent of her Shard if she tried to fight Ruin. Spoilers for WaT:

Spoiler

Quote

"Admit it Cultivation. You let the war proceed for millennia and did not intercede, because conflict doesn't just inflame emotion, it forces growth. Your power's Intent."

Her avatar stared at him boldly, but he felt the tremble in her power. Yes. It did like war, didn't it? She hated suffering, but she was the Vessel. Her power loved anything that encouraged people to learn, better themselves, and achieve.

 

Granted this is just Taravangian's line of thought and he's not all knowing. But I think he's right in this instance. And I think that while Koravellium would've feared Ruin, Cultivation would have loved it. To me, the way Ati forced Ruin into acting feels super aligned to Cultivation's Intent. Decay encourages growth. Refinement requires the removal of impurities.

Preservation prevented Leras from acting against Ruin, but at least it didn't want to side with Ruin.

On the flip side, you're right that Koravellium would have been able to defend herself in ways that Leras couldn't. And even if Cultivation loved Ruin, Ruin would still probably want to destroy Cultivation. I imagine it boiling down to a scenario where Ati eventually gives in to the Ruinous urge to attack Cultivation. And, even if Koravellium could convince Cultivation to fight back, I think Ruin wins that fight. Largely because he got to strike first.

[TruthwatchingRadiant He/Him]

Yeah, that’s a good way to look at it. I feel like people (myself included) don’t realize the difference in the Shard’s Intent, and the Vessel’s Intent.
Another question I’ve had rollin around in my head: What would happen if someone acquired enough Lerasium to use as a Metal Mind? Or are God Metals different? 
I was also watching a DSNX Q&A session, and someone got RAFO’d from asking if Crem, (which is mentioned as having a slightly metallic taste to it) has trace amounts of a God Metal in it. What do you think would happen to an Allomancer burning, say, Tanavastium?

[Jult]

13 minutes ago, TruthwatchingRadiant said:

Yeah, that’s a good way to look at it. I feel like people (myself included) don’t realize the difference in the Shard’s Intent, and the Vessel’s Intent.

I think, in practice, the distinction between Shard and Vessel is more subtle than I tend to think about it. Especially, for Vessels who have been influenced by the Shard for very long times (e.g. by the end of Mistborn Era 1, Leras had been almost completely dominated by Preservation's).

27 minutes ago, TruthwatchingRadiant said:

What would happen if someone acquired enough Lerasium to use as a Metal Mind? Or are God Metals different? 

I believe there is a WoB somewhere on the Arcanum that you can make a Lerasium Metal Mind, but Brandon hasn't revealed what they actually do yet. My personal guess is that you'd be able to use it as an almost universal Metal Mind (storing any trait that a normal Metal Mind could).

28 minutes ago, TruthwatchingRadiant said:

What do you think would happen to an Allomancer burning, say, Tanavastium?

Similar answer. We know that all God Metals can be burned. But we don't know what they'll do. In the case of Tanavastium, I would personally guess that it would grant you access to Surges. Or maybe just the base Radiant abilities for absorbing and using Stormlight (increased endurance, healing, etc.).

[alder24]

On 7/8/2025 at 11:43 PM, TruthwatchingRadiant said:

So do you guys think Cultivation would’ve done a better job resisting Ruin than Preservation did? Leras tried his hardest to work around Ati’s plans for Scadrial. I feel like one of the main points is that Preservation couldn’t combat Ruin the way another Shard could. There some synonyms of cultivation that I feel serve to back this. The ones I found are: culture, education, civilization, accomplishment, and refinement. 
These strike me as Ruin’s direct opposite, and with Cultivation not being as limited to, um, unpreserving as Preservation, I think that if Cultivation somehow came into contact with Ruin, she could beat him. Thoughts?

Sorry, I think I stuck this under the wrong topic.

Ruin and Cultivation are the most compatible with each other, they are both about change and therefore Cultivation would have struggled a lot at combating Ruin. Cultivation's own intent would to some degree love what Ruin was doing and it would want to be a part of it rather than stop it. If Koravellium would want to fight Ruin, she would have to fight her own intent first, which would weaken her. 

Preservation on the other hand is the polar opposite of Ruin, it's as far from Ruin as it can be. This is what bound Preservation to impotence, but Ruin was impotent too, preventing him from doing even the simplest and smallest of things. At all time, almost all of their powers were thrown at each other, trying to stop each other from acting and that's the reason Ruin was unable to destroy Scadrial sooner, even though Preservation had broken his Oath. I doubt any other Shard could have done a better job at stopping Ruin without destroying Scadrial in the process.

Spoiler

Autarchk

If I can ask a question, I just read the Mistborn trilogy and, were Preservation and Ruin two different shards or a single one with their power split somehow? If they were two shards, does that mean a single person can hold more than one, since Harmony apparently holds both now?

Brandon Sanderson

They were two shards.

Yes, one entity can hold more than one. Remember that holding a shard changes you, over time. Rayse knows this, and prefers to leave behind destroyed rivals as opposed to taking their power and potentially being overwhelmed by it.

Nepene

I have a question, if you are willing. Would Ruin be more compatible with Rayse, would he pick up that shard had he visited Scadrial and shattered him? All the shards we have seen that he has shattered seem rather different in intent than him- Honor, Cultivation, Love, Dominion. But Ruin seems more in line with Odium. Rayse has ruined the days of quite a few people.

Brandon Sanderson

Technically, Ruin would be most compatible with Cultivation. Ruin's 'theme' so to speak is that all things must age and pass. An embodiment of entropy. That power, separated from the whole and being held by a person who did not have the willpower to resist its transformation of him, led to something very dangerous. But it was not evil. None of the sixteen technically are, though you may have read that Hoid has specific beef with Rayse. Whether you think of Odium as evil depends upon how much you agree with Hoid's particular view.

That said, Ruin would have been one of the 'safer' of the sixteen for Rayse to take, if he'd been about that. Odium is by its nature selfish, however, and the combination of it and Rayse makes for an entity that fears an additional power would destroy it and make it into something else.

General Reddit 2013 (March 14, 2013)