The wider political situation in the cosmere [Discuss]

[RedBlue]

We get quite a few insights and hints into the cosmere’s big-picture political situation, and I’m making this post to try to put some puzzle pieces together.

Scadrial and Roshar are major superpowers. They are the two planets making a play for Drominad, and there are numerous references to those two being the big fish of the cosmere.

There are several other spacefaring powers of note including Dhatri, Yolen, Silverlight, and Taldain. Sel and Nalthis are not mentioned much in this book, but should probably also go on the list. Everyone is scared of Threnodite shades, but it’s unclear how organised and cohesive the Threnodites are as a political entity. Lumar and Drominad are likely to count as notable powers following the events of this book.

Scadrial is not politically unified judging by the separation between the Northern culture and the Malwish culture. The Malwish Empire has its own prime minister and its own military that is distinctly Malwish, and has no cultural features in common with the Northerners that I noticed. This is especially interesting as it suggests the tension between the north and south is still unresolved, and possibly a big part of what drives their rapid technological advancement (and aggressive territorial expansion).

Going forward, we should keep in mind that planets in the cosmere are (generally) home to several people groups that are not necessarily unified under one government by the space age. It is probably more correct to view Scadrial as two powers, not one, and that may go for Roshar as well.

The ‘Silverlight Accords’ form an international law that even the biggest superpowers have to at least pay lip service to. It seems that no single power has the ability to fight against all the other powers at once, which keeps their behaviour somewhat in line. The Accords have rules about how much a spacefaring culture is allowed to interfere with an industrial culture, and in what circumstances. These rules are designed not to limit contact, but to limit unchecked conquest.

Silverlight views Hoid as a notorious outlaw, which suggests he is acting against most political powers’ interests and is effective enough to scare them.

There are hundreds of accessible, inhabited planets currently documented as per Dajer’s slide show. It’s fair to assume that these are public knowledge, not military secrets, or the military wouldn’t be showing the slide show presentation to outsiders. (And yes, Dajer is unreliable, but photographic evidence is photographic evidence.) The discovery of a new planet is an exciting event in academia, with implications for business and political interests.

Of these known planets, dozens have spacefaring cultures judging by the number of people groups from different planets that can be found in Silverlight. This implies that not every spacefaring culture is a notable political power.

There are many more undocumented, unexplored planets which may be inhabited. Thousands, maybe tens of thousands. Following the events of the book and the availability of Navigators, there is likely to be a discovery boom and a rush to claim land and resources, which will have a big impact on the balance of power.

There are several non-human species with human-like intelligence out there. Dragons and Sleepless are the obvious politically relevant ones, but there are more we haven’t heard of, including ones with different physical requirements than humans.

The Shards are still relevant in that you don’t mess with them or take them lightly, but they seem to avoid direct involvement most of the time. There is uncertainty around what happened to Virtuosity and what is going on with Autonomy, so there is a degree of mystery still there.

[Treamayne]

4 hours ago, RedBlue said:

Of these known planets, dozens have spacefaring cultures judging by the number of people groups from different planets that can be found in Silverlight. This implies that not every spacefaring culture is a notable political power.

This is likely a false assumption. Dozens of cultures were represented in Silverlight before any planet had a Spacefaring culture. Interplanetary Trade has been happening since before the Shattering - airships just make travel through Shadesmar faster, and some of those airships can also travel in Space in the Physical Realm. 

Discussed briefly by Starling - Ch 22:

Spoiler

Traveling through Shadesmar was dreary, but at least she could do it in a ship, rather than walking in a caravan like people had done in the olden days.

In fact, it's even possible that one of the main reasons why Dragons had such pervasive influence over the millenia was because they could fly through Shadesmar beween Expanses, when nobody else could do so. . . 

[+Oltux72 he/him]

15 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

This is likely a false assumption. Dozens of cultures were represented in Silverlight before any planet had a Spacefaring culture. Interplanetary Trade has been happening since before the Shattering - airships just make travel through Shadesmar faster, and some of those airships can also travel in Space in the Physical Realm. 

What do you count as spacefaring? Having their own FTL capability?

It does not seem likely to me that a species would be represented in numbers in Silverlight, but having no ships travelling at least through Shadesmar.

[RedBlue]

23 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Dozens of cultures were represented in Silverlight before any planet had a Spacefaring culture.

6 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

What do you count as spacefaring? Having their own FTL capability?

I should probably have specified.

When I say ‘spacefaring culture’ in a cosmere context, I’m talking about the ability to move large numbers of people between star systems regularly and quickly, using any method.

I’m aware that there’s a difference between travelling through Shadesmar and using FTL in the physical realm, but in many cases, the end result will be the same.

[Treamayne]

31 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

What do you count as spacefaring? Having their own FTL capability?

18 minutes ago, RedBlue said:

I should probably have specified.

Basically.

The impression I had from Starling's discourse on the subject was that the Cosmere is using the term "Spacefaring" to mean those Societies that can access Cosmere Planets that do not have a Perpendicularity by travelling to them through the Physical Realm. It was one of the main topics about visiting Dhatri - because there is no Perpendicularity (which made Aditil's tickets so expensive)

IED Ch 22:

Spoiler

Unfortunately, Dhatri didn’t have a perpendicularity anymore. Which meant you couldn’t hop out of Shadesmar there to visit it. No, to get to Dhatri, you needed a faster-than-light-capable ship that traveled through space in the Physical Realm. Those were expensive.

It seems to me that in-world there is a noted difference between Worldhopping and Spacefaring, though the latter can use the former to be faster and cheaper (for systems with a Perpendicularity - or simply to minmize the PR Space travel).

Edit:

Possibly a better measure is the number of societies that are largely Realmatically Aware

• E. g. people on Scadrial were conducting trade through Shadesmar during the Final Empire - but Scadrial as a whole was not Realmatically aware at that point.  
  • Even in Era 2, there may have been more people who knew, but Scadrian Society was not privy to the Larger Cosmere yet. 

Edited July 4, 2025 by Treamayne
Add/SPAG

[VersatileThrenodite he/him]

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

Possibly a better measure is the number of societies that are largely Realmatically Aware

If there's anything like a Prime directive, based on the Sunlit Man it seems like this is one of the biggest factors.

Edited July 4, 2025 by VersatileThrenodite

[Treamayne]

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2 hours ago, VersatileThrenodite said:

If there's anything like a Prime directive, based on the Sunlit Man it seems like this is one of the biggest factors.

Have you read IED yet (and SotD, to some extent)? This is a large part of that story. 

[VersatileThrenodite he/him]

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

Have you read IED yet (and SotD, to some extent)? This is a large part of that story. 

Oh yes. But obviously our Malwish friends and the Skybreaker aren't working with the best of intentions. Treating the Prime Directive like the Prime suggestion. But Zellion or other more responsible individuals might have tried to be a bit more smooth.

[Treamayne]

On 7/4/2025 at 10:47 PM, VersatileThrenodite said:

Oh yes. But obviously our Malwish friends and the Skybreaker aren't working with the best of intentions. Treating the Prime Directive like the Prime suggestion. But Zellion or other more responsible individuals might have tried to be a bit more smooth.

I asked, because it was part of SotD and explained in Ch 45:

Spoiler

“There are rules, though,” he said. “They haven’t simply conquered us—which they could undoubtedly do.”

“Yeah, there are,” she said. “They don’t want to get the Shards involved.”

“The gods, as you called them,” he said. “We have our own gods. They are a jealous type.”

“Chances are,” she said, “your gods are one of the Shards, or used to be one of them. And in most cases, forces can’t invade a planet of Invested people, lest they rile up the Shards. So they play nice by giving lip service to cosmere-wide treaties. They’ll bully you, but won’t force you, unless…”

“Unless we look like we’re going to give our allegiance to their enemies,” he guessed. “Then they’ll invade, because it’s not worth the risk.”

“Or unless you somehow prove dangerous. They might try a ploy, at some point, to trick you into advancing too quickly on your own, or using powers that you don’t understand, to make you seem like a threat worth suppressing.”

“They started trying that years ago,” he said, remembering the ploy with the strange device on Patji. “But my friend Vathi is too smart to be caught by it.”

So, their version of "Prime Directive" seems to essentially be:

• Contact - Yes
  • Bully - Yes
  • Manipulate - Yes
  • Assist - Yes
• Trade - Restricted
  • Technology - only near current tech level (e. g. no information-age tech for an iron-age culture)
  • Invested Tech - no

Unless they can prove one of the exceptions mentioned. . . AT least that was my understanding based on that passage (and other references in IED). 

 

On 7/4/2025 at 10:47 PM, VersatileThrenodite said:

But Zellion or other more responsible individuals might have tried to be a bit more smooth.

Unsure if you mean OG Zellion or Nomad/Zellion - but that is still an individual - not one culture contacting another culture.
And we saw how the Scadrians treated Canticle. . . 

Edited July 15, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

On 7/4/2025 at 9:05 AM, RedBlue said:

We get quite a few insights and hints into the cosmere’s big-picture political situation, and I’m making this post to try to put some puzzle pieces together.

Scadrial and Roshar are major superpowers. They are the two planets making a play for Drominad, and there are numerous references to those two being the big fish of the cosmere.

There are several other spacefaring powers of note including Dhatri, Yolen, Silverlight, and Taldain. Sel and Nalthis are not mentioned much in this book, but should probably also go on the list. Everyone is scared of Threnodite shades, but it’s unclear how organised and cohesive the Threnodites are as a political entity. Lumar and Drominad are likely to count as notable powers following the events of this book.

Scadrial is not politically unified judging by the separation between the Northern culture and the Malwish culture. The Malwish Empire has its own prime minister and its own military that is distinctly Malwish, and has no cultural features in common with the Northerners that I noticed. This is especially interesting as it suggests the tension between the north and south is still unresolved, and possibly a big part of what drives their rapid technological advancement (and aggressive territorial expansion).

Going forward, we should keep in mind that planets in the cosmere are (generally) home to several people groups that are not necessarily unified under one government by the space age. It is probably more correct to view Scadrial as two powers, not one, and that may go for Roshar as well.

The ‘Silverlight Accords’ form an international law that even the biggest superpowers have to at least pay lip service to. It seems that no single power has the ability to fight against all the other powers at once, which keeps their behaviour somewhat in line. The Accords have rules about how much a spacefaring culture is allowed to interfere with an industrial culture, and in what circumstances. These rules are designed not to limit contact, but to limit unchecked conquest.

Silverlight views Hoid as a notorious outlaw, which suggests he is acting against most political powers’ interests and is effective enough to scare them.

There are hundreds of accessible, inhabited planets currently documented as per Dajer’s slide show. It’s fair to assume that these are public knowledge, not military secrets, or the military wouldn’t be showing the slide show presentation to outsiders. (And yes, Dajer is unreliable, but photographic evidence is photographic evidence.) The discovery of a new planet is an exciting event in academia, with implications for business and political interests.

Of these known planets, dozens have spacefaring cultures judging by the number of people groups from different planets that can be found in Silverlight. This implies that not every spacefaring culture is a notable political power.

There are many more undocumented, unexplored planets which may be inhabited. Thousands, maybe tens of thousands. Following the events of the book and the availability of Navigators, there is likely to be a discovery boom and a rush to claim land and resources, which will have a big impact on the balance of power.

There are several non-human species with human-like intelligence out there. Dragons and Sleepless are the obvious politically relevant ones, but there are more we haven’t heard of, including ones with different physical requirements than humans.

The Shards are still relevant in that you don’t mess with them or take them lightly, but they seem to avoid direct involvement most of the time. There is uncertainty around what happened to Virtuosity and what is going on with Autonomy, so there is a degree of mystery still there.

I think we should consider that it was said (somewhere in there) that although Scadrial considers itself the most technically advanced, Invention (A shard we don't know much of yet) has the most technologically advanced planets (which makes sense). And I am just glad that we got some knowledge of Invention.

[bmcclure7]

On 7/4/2025 at 11:05 AM, RedBlue said:

We get quite a few insights and hints into the cosmere’s big-picture political situation, and I’m making this post to try to put some puzzle pieces together.

Scadrial and Roshar are major superpowers. They are the two planets making a play for Drominad, and there are numerous references to those two being the big fish of the cosmere.

There are several other spacefaring powers of note including Dhatri, Yolen, Silverlight, and Taldain. Sel and Nalthis are not mentioned much in this book, but should probably also go on the list. Everyone is scared of Threnodite shades, but it’s unclear how organised and cohesive the Threnodites are as a political entity. Lumar and Drominad are likely to count as notable powers following the events of this book.

Scadrial is not politically unified judging by the separation between the Northern culture and the Malwish culture. The Malwish Empire has its own prime minister and its own military that is distinctly Malwish, and has no cultural features in common with the Northerners that I noticed. This is especially interesting as it suggests the tension between the north and south is still unresolved, and possibly a big part of what drives their rapid technological advancement (and aggressive territorial expansion).

Going forward, we should keep in mind that planets in the cosmere are (generally) home to several people groups that are not necessarily unified under one government by the space age. It is probably more correct to view Scadrial as two powers, not one, and that may go for Roshar as well.

The ‘Silverlight Accords’ form an international law that even the biggest superpowers have to at least pay lip service to. It seems that no single power has the ability to fight against all the other powers at once, which keeps their behaviour somewhat in line. The Accords have rules about how much a spacefaring culture is allowed to interfere with an industrial culture, and in what circumstances. These rules are designed not to limit contact, but to limit unchecked conquest.

Silverlight views Hoid as a notorious outlaw, which suggests he is acting against most political powers’ interests and is effective enough to scare them.

There are hundreds of accessible, inhabited planets currently documented as per Dajer’s slide show. It’s fair to assume that these are public knowledge, not military secrets, or the military wouldn’t be showing the slide show presentation to outsiders. (And yes, Dajer is unreliable, but photographic evidence is photographic evidence.) The discovery of a new planet is an exciting event in academia, with implications for business and political interests.

Of these known planets, dozens have spacefaring cultures judging by the number of people groups from different planets that can be found in Silverlight. This implies that not every spacefaring culture is a notable political power.

There are many more undocumented, unexplored planets which may be inhabited. Thousands, maybe tens of thousands. Following the events of the book and the availability of Navigators, there is likely to be a discovery boom and a rush to claim land and resources, which will have a big impact on the balance of power.

There are several non-human species with human-like intelligence out there. Dragons and Sleepless are the obvious politically relevant ones, but there are more we haven’t heard of, including ones with different physical requirements than humans.

The Shards are still relevant in that you don’t mess with them or take them lightly, but they seem to avoid direct involvement most of the time. There is uncertainty around what happened to Virtuosity and what is going on with Autonomy, so there is a degree of mystery still there.

 

“Scadrial is not politically unified judging by the separation between the Northern culture and the Malwish culture. The Malwish Empire has its own prime minister and its own military that is distinctly Malwish, and has no cultural features in common with the Northerners that I noticed. This is especially interesting as it suggests the tension between the north and south is still unresolved, and possibly a big part of what drives their rapid technological advancement (and aggressive territorial expansion).“

 

I this is only partly correct the Malawish empire is clearly interchangeable with Scadrial to out siders clearly there has been some kind of resilusion to the conflict that left the southerners in a dominant position 

 

 

[RedBlue]

8 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

“Scadrial is not politically unified judging by the separation between the Northern culture and the Malwish culture. The Malwish Empire has its own prime minister and its own military that is distinctly Malwish, and has no cultural features in common with the Northerners that I noticed. This is especially interesting as it suggests the tension between the north and south is still unresolved, and possibly a big part of what drives their rapid technological advancement (and aggressive territorial expansion).“

 

I this is only partly correct the Malawish empire is clearly interchangeable with Scadrial to out siders clearly there has been some kind of resilusion to the conflict that left the southerners in a dominant position 

‘Politically unified’ means operating under the same government. I think it’s pretty clear that Malwish and Northern cultures remain very distinct with little mixing, which implies there are at least two functioning nations with their own independent governments on Scadrial by this point.

I don’t think there is much evidence that the Malwish are dominant overall, just that they are making a power play for the main planet the plot is concerned with. Starling sometimes speaks as though Scadrial and the Malwish Empire are interchangeable, but she’s speaking colloquially in a context where Scadrian politics are not a forefront concern for her.

But even if the Malwish were dominant in terms of projecting influence to the rest of the cosmere, that wouldn’t mean Scadrial is politically unified. The North could still exist and be independent under those circumstances.

[bmcclure7]

5 hours ago, RedBlue said:

‘Politically unified’ means operating under the same government. I think it’s pretty clear that Malwish and Northern cultures remain very distinct with little mixing, which implies there are at least two functioning nations with their own independent governments on Scadrial by this point.

I don’t think there is much evidence that the Malwish are dominant overall, just that they are making a power play for the main planet the plot is concerned with. Starling sometimes speaks as though Scadrial and the Malwish Empire are interchangeable, but she’s speaking colloquially in a context where Scadrian politics are not a forefront concern for her.

But even if the Malwish were dominant in terms of projecting influence to the rest of the cosmere, that wouldn’t mean Scadrial is politically unified. The North could still exist and be independent under those circumstances.

I agree that wasn’t the part I was objecting to I was only they clearly aren’t unified and she admits as much. I’m just demonstrating that the south must be dominant given that from the outside no one needs clarification if you use. Scadrial and.Malwish interchangeably, which means that only one of them is a dominant force on the cosmere level meaning that one is clearly significantly more dominant than the other. I suspect this is due to a partial, but not complete Victory in era 3 much like the singers Victory in Stormlight