What Honor & Cultivation "made" with cymatics, Odium "Unmade" with Voidlight corruption

[LeahAstonished]

Dawncity Creation

(WaT 115) 7000 years ago "Together [Honor and Cultivation] made the ground sing, and raised up incredible stone structures-beautiful sweeping vistas, rock made liquid until it froze into the shapes we'd imagined. Sounds sculpted from our Joy."

(WoK 33) Kabsal explains cymatics to Shallan, how when sounds interact with a physical medium at resonant frequencies it creates patterns "It is proof that the Almighty is in all things. You can see him here, in these cities. Do you see how symmetrical they are?” "The original names for the ten Silver Kingdoms. Alethela, Valhav, Shin Kak Nish. Perfect, symmetrical.” 

So I think Honor & Cultivation went around Roshar and basically sang the numbers 1-10 creating huge stone structures with each of those symmetries that became the Dawncities/Oathgate locations.

We know six patterns from Kabsal's city drawings (WoK 33), Shallan's map (WoR 71) & the city plan of Azimir (WaT 80):
3 - Kholinar
4 - Azimir
6 - Vedenar
8 - Thaylen City & Stomseat?
(Shallan's map of the Shattered Plains shows 8 fold symmetry, but there was a catastrophic event there since its original creation as Stormseat, or maybe Honor wanted to skip 9 so he did two 8s?)
10 - Akinah

Urithiru Creation

(WoK 33) Jasnah then asks if Kabsal has a sound that can "reproduce a cymatic pattern corresponding to Urithiru", he doesn't, but from WaT we now know how Urithiru was created.

(WaT 21) Urithiru shares that 6000 years ago "when the Stones wanted a legacy in the form of a child of Honor and Cultivation. Back when Bondsmiths bonded not spren, but to the ancient forces, left by gods...I, formed from the Stone, which was the sibling of Wind and Night"

(RoW 83) "The stones whispered to [Venli] that the place had once been called Ur...An ancient place, with ancient stones...The stones had not been created by [the Sibling], though a grand project had reshaped them. Reshaped Ur, the original mountain that had been here before. The Stones remembered being that mountain."

(WaT 90) Nightblood shares "[an honorblade] says that he helped build a huge fortress!...And the others joined in. They did it even before there were Radiants. Isn’t that deevy? Stoneshaping is deevy."

So Urithiru was Stoneshaped from the mountain, Ur, by the Heralds and the portion of the old god Stones in that mountain is now a part of Urithiru.

 

Stones of the Dawncites

(WoR I-10) When Szeth was in Urithiru "His voice echoed against the mountains and their spirit-souls"

(WaT 55) "Like the rock at Urithiru, these stones were eager to speak with [Venli]—and their rhythms were those of Joy and Peace. They named themselves Ko, the stones of the hills, but sometimes spoke as if all stone—indeed, all Roshar—were one."

So during the Silver Kingdom Epoch, could the portion of the old god Stones in the 10 regions that Honor & Cultivation "made" now be a part of those cities, their "spirit-souls"? One god of many souls?

The Unmade Process

(RoW 38) Raboniel to the Sibling as she moved to corrupt the pillar with Voidlight "You shall not awake, at least not as yourself."

(RoW 42) The Sibling explaining what Raboniel was attempting, "The Lady of Pains has the Surge of Transformation and dangerous knowledge. She will infuse my entire heart—the pillar—in the proper order, using her Voidlight. In so doing, she would corrupt me and leave me … leave me as one of the Unmade.…" 

(WaT 120) From 6000-4500 years ago, Honor and Odium "have been in an arms race. First his fused, then my Heralds, then his Unmade, then my Radiants". 

So could Odium have infused the stone structures of the Dawncities with Voidlight, corrupting the "spirit-souls" of the Stones and using Transformation to create the Unmade?

(RoW I-2) Odium "hated how [Sja-anat] referred to the Sibling...as her cousin". Cousin would make sense if they both started as a portion of the old god Stones that inhabited structures made by Honor and his allies. Also makes sense that Odium would hate this.

Why only 9?

(WoR 47) From the book by scholar Ali-daughter-Hasweth of Shinovar "Urithiru was the connection to all nations, and, at times, our only path to the outside world, with its stones unhallowed." (Note: I interpret "its stones unhallowed" as the outside world's stones unhallowed)

(WoR I-10) When Szeth was in Urithiru "The only place in the East where the stones were not cursed"

(WoR 83) When stepping from the Shattered Plains onto the Oathgate, Shallan thinks "There was a hallowed quality to this place, and honestly, that was part of how she knew she was right."

So, if the Shin say all stones except those in Shinovar & Urithiru/Oathgates are unhallowed/cursed, is the stone structure in Shin Kak Nish the only one uncorrupted by Odium? Could the Shin saying "Stones Unhallowed" actually be another name for the Unmade?

Is Ba-Ado-Mishram a corruption of Stormseat?

(WaT 120) 4500 years ago, Honor throws himself at Odium over Stormseat:

"In that moment, tiny pieces of something discordant were born.

Something dangerous, even to a god. the counter to my essence. anti-light, it could be called.

Worse, the shock wave of our clash surged beneath us, power rushing and vibrating with those terrible tones. I realized too late that there was something strange about this land, beneath this city. Pieces of something fallen. A … fourth moon? In splinters? It reacted to us, and I saw people there—new ones, watchers, who had been hidden from me.

Those pieces of the sky … they sheltered from the eyes of God? That was not aluminum. It was something greater. something … that responded to our clash, the ground liquefying in a pattern, dictated by the tone and the strange nature of the place.

We vaporized an entire capital city in seconds."

(WaT 121) By at least 2000 years ago during the False Desolation, Ba-Ado-Mishram had found the Well of Control, "I stepped into God’s role. I took his pool, his perpendicularity, and am tied to every singer who holds a form. To every spren, to every fiber of Roshar.”

So if Ba-Ado-Mishram is a corruption of Stormseat, did this release of anti-light, the vibrations of the fourth moon and the restructuring of the stone of Stormseat partially free her from Odium's control? Was she at first only weakly able to ask Honor for peace, but then able to take up the power of the Well of Control (which she could find since it was hidden in her ancient body) and Connect with Roshar?

What's the deal with the hyphens?

(WaT 21) "Back when Bondsmiths bonded not spren, but to the ancient forces, left by gods" 

So maybe the more intelligent Unmade are the ones that had bonds before being corrupted?

For example, "Re" = the portion of the old god Stones & "Shephir" = the Bondsmith (maybe an off-worlder with access to aethers?). 

What if Ba-Ado-Mishram is three entities? "Ba" = portion of Stone old god, "Mishram" = the Bondsmith, & "Ado" = ???. Sure seems to be from the root word Adonalsium.

(WaT 121) "[Ba-Ado-Mishram] hummed the Rhythm of Exultation. “A battle won,” she announced. “And gifts to be given. Some of you have been chosen for your valor. Come forth, and receive your gift.”"

There is a theory that Valor is hiding in the same location as the Well of Control "within the shroud of the fragments of the dead moon" (WaT 41).

So, has Ba-Ado-Mishram interacted with Valor? Does she have some of Valor's investiture?

Edited March 30, 2025 by LeahAstonished

[ParaTulip fae/faer (declines as she/her)]

I am glad to see someone is trying to make sense of the Unmade. I was personally really disappointed that the making of the Heralds got so much time and attention while their equal counterparts in the Unmade were ignored. It's been kinda weird to have this story with so much interest in the morality of war that gives so little time to the people fighting for theirs liberation.

I do find the idea that the Unmade are the Spren of ancient Singer cities interesting. It would explain why they are on the side of the Singers even when they are against Odium.

I don't know if there's enough evidence to conclude things about the nature of the fourth moon or supposing it had anything to do with Valor. Since Tanavast's memory doesn't include the event of it crashing, I feel as if it must have done so before the Shattering.

[Knick Knack]

Something that I have wondered is if the Unmade were creations of Odium in the same way that the Stormfather was a creation of Honor, or that the Nightwatcher was created by Cultivation, or even the Sibling was made by both. In the Unmade's cases, some may be smaller and less powerful than the others simply because the force was split between the nine of them.

[Nitpicking]

Quote

"The original names for the ten Silver Kingdoms. Alethela, Valhav, Shin Kak Nish. Perfect, symmetrical.” 

He's wrong. Remember, the Vorin retroactively change names to make them match Vorin ideas of symmetry, as with real Nale becoming Nalan. The moderns like Kabsal believe the fake names and use them as evidence for Vorinism.

[Through The Living Ash he/him]

On 3/30/2025 at 3:02 PM, LeahAstonished said:

Dawncity Creation

(WaT 115) 7000 years ago "Together [Honor and Cultivation] made the ground sing, and raised up incredible stone structures-beautiful sweeping vistas, rock made liquid until it froze into the shapes we'd imagined. Sounds sculpted from our Joy."

(WoK 33) Kabsal explains cymatics to Shallan, how when sounds interact with a physical medium at resonant frequencies it creates patterns "It is proof that the Almighty is in all things. You can see him here, in these cities. Do you see how symmetrical they are?” "The original names for the ten Silver Kingdoms. Alethela, Valhav, Shin Kak Nish. Perfect, symmetrical.” 

So I think Honor & Cultivation went around Roshar and basically sang the numbers 1-10 creating huge stone structures with each of those symmetries that became the Dawncities/Oathgate locations.

We know six patterns from Kabsal's city drawings (WoK 33), Shallan's map (WoR 71) & the city plan of Azimir (WaT 80):
3 - Kholinar
4 - Azimir
6 - Vedenar
8 - Thaylen City & Stomseat?
(Shallan's map of the Shattered Plains shows 8 fold symmetry, but there was a catastrophic event there since its original creation as Stormseat, or maybe Honor wanted to skip 9 so he did two 8s?)
10 - Akinah

Urithiru Creation

(WoK 33) Jasnah then asks if Kabsal has a sound that can "reproduce a cymatic pattern corresponding to Urithiru", he doesn't, but from WaT we now know how Urithiru was created.

(WaT 21) Urithiru shares that 6000 years ago "when the Stones wanted a legacy in the form of a child of Honor and Cultivation. Back when Bondsmiths bonded not spren, but to the ancient forces, left by gods...I, formed from the Stone, which was the sibling of Wind and Night"

(RoW 83) "The stones whispered to [Venli] that the place had once been called Ur...An ancient place, with ancient stones...The stones had not been created by [the Sibling], though a grand project had reshaped them. Reshaped Ur, the original mountain that had been here before. The Stones remembered being that mountain."

(WaT 90) Nightblood shares "[an honorblade] says that he helped build a huge fortress!...And the others joined in. They did it even before there were Radiants. Isn’t that deevy? Stoneshaping is deevy."

So Urithiru was Stoneshaped from the mountain, Ur, by the Heralds and the portion of the old god Stones in that mountain is now a part of Urithiru.

 

Stones of the Dawncites

(WoR I-10) When Szeth was in Urithiru "His voice echoed against the mountains and their spirit-souls"

(WaT 55) "Like the rock at Urithiru, these stones were eager to speak with [Venli]—and their rhythms were those of Joy and Peace. They named themselves Ko, the stones of the hills, but sometimes spoke as if all stone—indeed, all Roshar—were one."

So during the Silver Kingdom Epoch, could the portion of the old god Stones in the 10 regions that Honor & Cultivation "made" now be a part of those cities, their "spirit-souls"? One god of many souls?

The Unmade Process

(RoW 38) Raboniel to the Sibling as she moved to corrupt the pillar with Voidlight "You shall not awake, at least not as yourself."

(RoW 42) The Sibling explaining what Raboniel was attempting, "The Lady of Pains has the Surge of Transformation and dangerous knowledge. She will infuse my entire heart—the pillar—in the proper order, using her Voidlight. In so doing, she would corrupt me and leave me … leave me as one of the Unmade.…" 

(WaT 120) From 6000-4500 years ago, Honor and Odium "have been in an arms race. First his fused, then my Heralds, then his Unmade, then my Radiants". 

So could Odium have infused the stone structures of the Dawncities with Voidlight, corrupting the "spirit-souls" of the Stones and using Transformation to create the Unmade?

(RoW I-2) Odium "hated how [Sja-anat] referred to the Sibling...as her cousin". Cousin would make sense if they both started as a portion of the old god Stones that inhabited structures made by Honor and his allies. Also makes sense that Odium would hate this.

Why only 9?

(WoR 47) From the book by scholar Ali-daughter-Hasweth of Shinovar "Urithiru was the connection to all nations, and, at times, our only path to the outside world, with its stones unhallowed." (Note: I interpret "its stones unhallowed" as the outside world's stones unhallowed)

(WoR I-10) When Szeth was in Urithiru "The only place in the East where the stones were not cursed"

(WoR 83) When stepping from the Shattered Plains onto the Oathgate, Shallan thinks "There was a hallowed quality to this place, and honestly, that was part of how she knew she was right."

So, if the Shin say all stones except those in Shinovar & Urithiru/Oathgates are unhallowed/cursed, is the stone structure in Shin Kak Nish the only one uncorrupted by Odium? Could the Shin saying "Stones Unhallowed" actually be another name for the Unmade?

Is Ba-Ado-Mishram a corruption of Stormseat?

(WaT 120) 4500 years ago, Honor throws himself at Odium over Stormseat:

"In that moment, tiny pieces of something discordant were born.

Something dangerous, even to a god. the counter to my essence. anti-light, it could be called.

Worse, the shock wave of our clash surged beneath us, power rushing and vibrating with those terrible tones. I realized too late that there was something strange about this land, beneath this city. Pieces of something fallen. A … fourth moon? In splinters? It reacted to us, and I saw people there—new ones, watchers, who had been hidden from me.

Those pieces of the sky … they sheltered from the eyes of God? That was not aluminum. It was something greater. something … that responded to our clash, the ground liquefying in a pattern, dictated by the tone and the strange nature of the place.

We vaporized an entire capital city in seconds."

(WaT 121) By at least 2000 years ago during the False Desolation, Ba-Ado-Mishram had found the Well of Control, "I stepped into God’s role. I took his pool, his perpendicularity, and am tied to every singer who holds a form. To every spren, to every fiber of Roshar.”

So if Ba-Ado-Mishram is a corruption of Stormseat, did this release of anti-light, the vibrations of the fourth moon and the restructuring of the stone of Stormseat partially free her from Odium's control? Was she at first only weakly able to ask Honor for peace, but then able to take up the power of the Well of Control (which she could find since it was hidden in her ancient body) and Connect with Roshar?

What's the deal with the hyphens?

(WaT 21) "Back when Bondsmiths bonded not spren, but to the ancient forces, left by gods" 

So maybe the more intelligent Unmade are the ones that had bonds before being corrupted?

For example, "Re" = the portion of the old god Stones & "Shephir" = the Bondsmith (maybe an off-worlder with access to aethers?). 

What if Ba-Ado-Mishram is three entities? "Ba" = portion of Stone old god, "Mishram" = the Bondsmith, & "Ado" = ???. Sure seems to be from the root word Adonalsium.

(WaT 121) "[Ba-Ado-Mishram] hummed the Rhythm of Exultation. “A battle won,” she announced. “And gifts to be given. Some of you have been chosen for your valor. Come forth, and receive your gift.”"

There is a theory that Valor is hiding in the same location as the Well of Control "within the shroud of the fragments of the dead moon" (WaT 41).

So, has Ba-Ado-Mishram interacted with Valor? Does she have some of Valor's investiture?

Note that Ba Ado Mishram has been translated as the Alethi glyphs, meaning "Child of Light and Music." 

I like the thought process here, how the stones correspond to the 10 Dawncities. My first thought upon reading this was: what if instead of the Unmade coming from the Stone, they came from the Night, and that is why the Night is no longer around? I realise it is said that the Night left, but it would seem fitting if Odium converted it into the Unmade, as how the Wind was sort of used for the Stormfather and the Stones were for the Sibling. 

[Argenti he/him]

15 minutes ago, Ashkaloda said:

I like the thought process here, how the stones correspond to the 10 Dawncities. My first thought upon reading this was: what if instead of the Unmade coming from the Stone, they came from the Night, and that is why the Night is no longer around? I realise it is said that the Night left, but it would seem fitting if Odium converted it into the Unmade, as how the Wind was sort of used for the Stormfather and the Stones were for the Sibling. 

The Nightwatcher was made from some of the Night's essence.

[Nitpicking]

9 hours ago, Ashkaloda said:

Note that Ba Ado Mishram has been translated as the Alethi glyphs, meaning "Child of Light and Music."

So you're implying (OK, Brandon is implying) that Mishram is a Splinter of Virtuosity, unmade by Odium?

[Through The Living Ash he/him]

On 10/10/2025 at 10:27 PM, Nitpicking said:

So you're implying (OK, Brandon is implying) that Mishram is a Splinter of Virtuosity, unmade by Odium?

That wasn't at all where I was going with that, but it's an interesting take. I was merely commenting on OP's "What if Ba-Ado-Mishram is three entities? "Ba" = portion of Stone old god, "Mishram" = the Bondsmith, & "Ado" = ???. Sure seems to be from the root word Adonalsium." 

[Ink and Embers Any pronouns]

On 10/10/2025 at 5:29 PM, Ashkaloda said:

Note that Ba Ado Mishram has been translated as the Alethi glyphs, meaning "Child of Light and Music." 

Which part translates to what? As in,  does "Ba" mean "light"? Or does it not work like that? Sorry, I'm not great with glyphs.

[Jult]

23 hours ago, Ink and Embers said:

Which part translates to what? As in,  does "Ba" mean "light"? Or does it not work like that? Sorry, I'm not great with glyphs.

The "Ado" part is the Light. Technically, the Alethi word for light is "Adoda". We know this from a conversation in Oathbringer Adolin's name; which means "Born unto Light".

I'm guessing Ashkaloda was referring to a topic similar to this one. Where they translated the phonetic glyphs on the borders of BAM's illustration. They didn't get all the way to "Child of Light and Music" in the specific topic I linked. But I could see how you would get there from what they had.

[Through The Living Ash he/him]

3 hours ago, Jult said:

The "Ado" part is the Light. Technically, the Alethi word for light is "Adoda". We know this from a conversation in Oathbringer Adolin's name; which means "Born unto Light".

I'm guessing Ashkaloda was referring to a topic similar to this one. Where they translated the phonetic glyphs on the borders of BAM's illustration. They didn't get all the way to "Child of Light and Music" in the specific topic I linked. But I could see how you would get there from what they had.

@Ink and Embers

I was referring to this: 

Edited October 13, 2025 by Ashkaloda

[Jult]

3 hours ago, Ashkaloda said:

@Ink and Embers

I was referring to this: 

Oh sweet. I had no idea it got confirmed. I'm really bad about following the con stuff cause I doubt I'll ever be able to attend one.

[Ink and Embers Any pronouns]

23 hours ago, Jult said:

The "Ado" part is the Light. Technically, the Alethi word for light is "Adoda". We know this from a conversation in Oathbringer Adolin's name; which means "Born unto Light".

I'm guessing Ashkaloda was referring to a topic similar to this one. Where they translated the phonetic glyphs on the borders of BAM's illustration. They didn't get all the way to "Child of Light and Music" in the specific topic I linked. But I could see how you would get there from what they had.

 

20 hours ago, Ashkaloda said:

@Ink and Embers

I was referring to this: 

Thank you very much!!!