Are Spiritweb nodes just more condensed spiritwebs?

[Oraiyu]

In my research into the soul in the Cosmere, I came across this post: https://www.17thshard.com/forums/topic/70160-what-is-a-“soul”-in-the-cosmere/

Very enlightening.

However, I was wondering:

Brandon asserts that each person is a node (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/69/#e6209). As everything has a soul, I think it goes without saying that each thing is a node.

However, each person and thing is made of parts. People have limbs, Tables have wood pieces, and everything is made of Axi. I propose that each node is, itself, a sort of more tightly backed bundle of Nodes and Connections - a sub-Spiritweb if you will.

What do you all think? Am I on the right track? Am I totally off? And if so, what IS a node and why doesn't it take into account the connected parts?

Thanks

Edited March 11, 2025 by Oraiyu
Title was not even close to grammatically correct

[Treamayne]

Welcome to the Shard. Thank you for your Intro Post to let us know what you have read.

• Your friend deceived you (likely it was unintentional) as elements of White Sand connect to Roshar, Lumar (Aethers), and Scadrial - not to mention every Ars Arcanum for every Cosmere novel. Consider checking out this thread on the various ways to enjoy White Sand.

Also, please consider checking out the Sharder FAQ for some useful forum info and tips, including searching both Coppermind and Arcanum. 

4 hours ago, Oraiyu said:

In my research into the soul in the Cosmere, I came across this post: https://www.17thshard.com/forums/topic/70160-what-is-a-“soul”-in-the-cosmere/

Very enlightening.

However, I was wondering:

Brandon asserts that each person is a node (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/69/#e6209). As everything has a soul, I think it goes without saying that each thing is a node.

This is likely the wrong forum for this post. Q&A is for questions with discrete answers to make it easy for new readers to find a specific answer to specific questions, while limiting Spoilers. Theories and discussion belong in the Discussion Boards - Spoiler Zone for any new works still in their spoiler period, or Cosmere Discussion / Non-Cosmere Discussion, as appropriate. Within Cosmere Discussion, please use a specific board for single book/series content - or use Cosmere Discussion Forum for any posts involving two or more Shardworlds/Series.

Quote

However, each person and thing is made of parts. People have limbs, Tables have wood pieces, and everything is made of Axi. I propose that each node is, itself, a sort of more tightly backed bundle of Nodes and Connections - a sub-Spiritweb if you will.

What do you all think? Am I on the right track? Am I totally off? And if so, what IS a node and why doesn't it take into account the connected parts?

You seem to be under the impression that Brandon views a Node as a "smallest unit," and I do not think that is the case at all. I beleive his use of "node" is more in the engineering/axial sense (see below) where, if each person's spiritweb is the "node" then the lines of connection are what ray out to other people, places, things, concepts. That does not preclude the spiritweb itself as being more complex inside the "node" (as it will need to be made up of sDNA, Ideal Self, spiritual characteristics like Spiritual Age, etc.)

Spoiler

We obviously don't really know how all of this will come together, because he has RAFOed most Spiritweb discussion for Eras 3 and 4, as the various Shardworlds start applying the Scientific Method, and come to understand Realmatics better.

Hope that helps.

WoBs:

Spoiler

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psychomanexe

I think that in the Spiritual realm a person's spiritweb sort of manifests as a collection of "nodes" which are the Forms of their body/mind/subconscious, and these nodes are connected by "lines" which are interactions between the pure Forms. These lines are what actually make up the person's character, how the body is "supposed" to be (barring accidents/disease, basically what magical healing attempts to restore the body to), as well as what interactions with investiture the person can use (what magic systems they have access to)

Am I completely off base here or should I keep thinking about this?

Brandon Sanderson

This is a good line to be thinking along.

/r/books AMA 2015 (June 8, 2015)

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Edited for Length and Relevance

Kurkistan

Is it the same reason why the Lord Ruler has to die of old age, and why you can't heal yourself into being an octopus or something?

Brandon Sanderson

Um... Yes, that is all connected in the exact same way.

Kurkistan

Okay, so it's all like these highfalutin Spiritual ideals?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Kurkistan

And are there like, median Cognitive ideals that gradually kind of influence these, or--

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, they transcend between the three. I mean the original concept for the Three Realms is Platonic philosophy.

Kurkistan

So it goes up *makes absurd reverse-waterfall hand gesture*

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, it goes up and it comes back down. A lot of the Cognitive is-- So like, the Cognitive has a bigger effect on how you can heal and things like that. Does that make sense?

Kurkistan

Yeah.

Brandon Sanderson

But the power to heal is a actually a Spiritual thing.

Kurkistan

So it's like the Spiritual says "I want to be like this" and the Cognitive is like "Okay I'll try really hard to be like that, but I have a limit."

Brandon Sanderson

Right. Right. Filtered through how you see yourself, yeah.

Firefight Chicago signing (Feb. 20, 2015)

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Kurkistan

So for Soulcasting—-I talked a lot about those ideals that a lot of things are based on—-is that also like there's an ideal of stone that when you Soulcast stone if you don't do anything special, it just defaults as that?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, there will be a default of all of them.

Kurkistan

And that's the same exact thing as spren and why the Lord Ruler dies of old age and all that stuff?

Brandon Sanderson

That is-- Yes, that's the same sort of concept. Yes.

Firefight Chicago signing (Feb. 20, 2015)

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MoriWillow

In the Spiritual Realm, does there exist an ideal of tables that is a separate entity from the spiritwebs of all extant tables? If so, did that ideal always exist, even before the invention of tables? Or was it born out of the people inventing tables?

Brandon Sanderson

The answer is no. This is where we diverge from Plato’s Theory of the Forms. Again, Theory of the Forms was a conceptual benchmark for me. I thought the Theory of the Forms was awesome, and it stuck in my head for many years and eventually gave birth to Cognitive, Spiritual, and Physical. (The first book really delving into that being Dragonsteel Prime, and it’s in the opening chapters of Dragonsteel Prime.)

But where it differs is: there is not a Platonic idea of a table in the cosmere. All ideals in the cosmere are filtered through the perception of sapient beings.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 6 (Dec. 19, 2023)

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Questioner (paraphrased)

If two people are identical twins, and one is a Mistborn, will the second be Mistborn?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

No. They could have different Spiritual DNA.

Ancient Lunch Q&A (July 31, 2010)

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Argent (paraphrased)

Is spiritual DNA inherited the same as regular DNA?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Inherited similarly, but not 100% identically, to regular DNA.

Steelheart Chicago signing (Oct. 1, 2013)

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Kurkistan

Is there-- Can you explain the relationship between Spiritual DNA, Spiritual aspects, and the spiritweb, or are they all just terms for the same thing?

Brandon Sanderson

They are all similar terms for the similar stuff, yeah.

Kurkistan

Okay. So it's not like the core is Spiritual DNA then things as you spread out is all Spiritual aspect?

Brandon Sanderson

No.

Firefight Chicago signing (Feb. 20, 2015)

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Questioner

If an advanced android was created with artificial intelligence using technology—but not Investiture like other artificial intelligences—artificial blood, organs, all that stuff, would they be able to access Invested Arts?

Brandon Sanderson

That's an excellent question. It's a really interesting question in the context of the Cosmere. So for right now, I am saying—now, maybe we will invent true AI, and I'll have to backpedal, but what I'm saying is in the Cosmere, true AI requires Investiture. And so a thinking machine is going to basically... the line between a thinking machine and a spren is going to get very blurred. And it's going to either attract [Investiture] or require it, and so the answer to you is "yes, to an extent". There are some Arts that are easier to use and some that are hard, depends on all these things, but the answer is "yes"...A thinking machine that actually is self-aware would be a person in the Cosmere for that reason, and would have the same Cognitive aspect and Spiritual aspect—so a soul, if you would—that an organic being would have.

Dragonsteel 2022 (Nov. 14, 2022)

 

 

[Oraiyu]

29 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Welcome to the Shard. Thank you for your Intro Post to let us know what you have read.

Hey

Thanks for your reply and direction. It seemed to me at first that this was the best place for this question based on the description, but I will take your direction into consideration.

32 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Your friend deceived you (likely it was unintentional) as elements of White Sand connect to Roshar, Lumar (Aethers), and Scadrial - not to mention every Ars Arcanum for every Cosmere novel. Consider checking out this thread on the various ways to enjoy White Sand.

My friend, as well as others I've asked, were giving me the answer they believed in 

Although I do not regret skipping WS to finish my Cosmere re-read, I am certainly now thinking about reading it eventually. Thanks for the link to the page showing the different methods of reading WS!

36 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

You seem to be under the impression that Brandon views a Node as a "smallest unit," and I do not think that is the case at all. I beleive his use of "node" is more in the engineering/axial sense (see below) where, if each person's spiritweb is the "node" then the lines of connection are what ray out to other people, places, things, concepts. That does not preclude the spiritweb itself as being more complex inside the "node" (as it will need to be made up of sDNA, Ideal Self, spiritual characteristics like Spiritual Age, etc.)

Good to know that I seem to be thinking along or close to the right lines.

Thank you very much for this insight and direction

38 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Also, please consider checking out the Sharder FAQ for some useful forum info and tips, including searching both Coppermind and Arcanum. 

This is great! I'll study this