Interaction between a Singer and the Fourth Ideal

[Roscoe Any Pronouns]

Randomly came up with this thought, the interaction a Singer could have with their own, or someone else's Armorspren.

As it stands we have two examples of a Radiant Singer, Rlain and Venli.

We also know in the case of Venli that it is possible for the Form of the Singer to not match the Radiant order, allowing her to have the Forms of Power despite being bonded to Timbre, due to the latter suppressing the Voidspren.

This makes me wonder, if a Singer reached the Fourth Ideal, could they bond with one of their own Armorspren? For instance, if the Voidspren in Venli's gemheart escaped/was let out, and she reached the Fourth, could she then bond with one of her own Armor-Joyspren to enter whatever that form would be? Could a singer bond with the Armorspren of another Radiant?

[Treamayne]

2 hours ago, Roscoe said:

Randomly came up with this thought, the interaction a Singer could have with their own, or someone else's Armorspren.

As it stands we have two examples of a Radiant Singer, Rlain and Venli.

We also know in the case of Venli that it is possible for the Form of the Singer to not match the Radiant order, allowing her to have the Forms of Power despite being bonded to Timbre, due to the latter suppressing the Voidspren.

This makes me wonder, if a Singer reached the Fourth Ideal, could they bond with one of their own Armorspren? For instance, if the Voidspren in Venli's gemheart escaped/was let out, and she reached the Fourth, could she then bond with one of her own Armor-Joyspren to enter whatever that form would be? Could a singer bond with the Armorspren of another Radiant?

We don't know what most of the Form-granting Spren are, but it's possible that some or all of the Armor Spren also can grant forms - however I doubt that a Singer could bond one of those that already have a Bond to a Radiant for Armor (even their own). However, that would not preclude bonding another of the same type for a Form.

Of the three confirmed Forms, two are also ArmorSpren.

Edited March 5, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG

[+robardin he/him]

On 3/4/2025 at 7:04 PM, Roscoe said:

Randomly came up with this thought, the interaction a Singer could have with their own, or someone else's Armorspren.

As it stands we have two examples of a Radiant Singer, Rlain and Venli.

We also know in the case of Venli that it is possible for the Form of the Singer to not match the Radiant order, allowing her to have the Forms of Power despite being bonded to Timbre, due to the latter suppressing the Voidspren.

This makes me wonder, if a Singer reached the Fourth Ideal, could they bond with one of their own Armorspren? For instance, if the Voidspren in Venli's gemheart escaped/was let out, and she reached the Fourth, could she then bond with one of her own Armor-Joyspren to enter whatever that form would be? Could a singer bond with the Armorspren of another Radiant?

Well, a singer or listener bonding a spren for a form involves hosting it in their gemheart. And a Radiant armorspren functions by being attracted to a specific Radiant (it’s not like Kaladin’s Plate forms from random windspren in the area every time — I’m pretty sure it’s the same bunch always with him now), manifesting physically as Plate in a similar way to their Radiant spren manifesting as a Blade.

So the only weirdness about Venli (say) bonding a joyspren, or (say) a windspren, in order to assume a Form, would be that that spren could no longer manifest as armor, whether for her or a Windrunner, without leaving her gemheart. And if the windspren were already the armorspren for a Windrunner, it seems really unlikely to want to enter her gemheart.

And if Venli somehow bonded one of her own armor joyspren as a Willshaper of the Fourth Ideal, I guess she’d just be down a piece of her armor?