Was Shadesmar always beads? and other cognitive realm questions

[AltonicKeys he/him]

Title! Humans didn't always have beads. When they first arrived, they probably used something else. So did Shadesmar shift into beads when people started using them widespread?

And what was it before? If the inanimate souls are represented in a thing that people think about a lot, like the mists on Scadrial, what did the humans think about before? Mud?
Also also, Singers are sentient, so they should have had a hand in forming Shadesmar. What did they think about? Rocks and pebbles? All I can think about is water, but that doesn't sound right. Too normal.
Maybe it's tied to the spiritual aspect of Roshar and always was, and always will be beads? Idk, something about how there's no real concept of time in the SR?
What about Ashyn? Was their cognitive realm made of fire? Smoke?

Modern stuff. That one Azish city, Tashikk, they drilled holes in their spheres to put on cords. Is the corresponding Shadesmar location full of holey beads? Further western Roshar doesn't really use spheres all that much, and supposedly they just use pieces of the gems themselves. Is their Shadesmar area a bunch of tiny gems? Would their "bead sea" be more dense, and the sea level lower?

If you took a bead of a chair's soul, and you traveled to the Scadrian substratal, would the bead turn into a mist version of the chair? Probably not, but if you brought the physical chair from Roshar to Scadrial through space, would that cognitive bead roll through the expanse between worlds? And once the chair touches down on Scadrial, and the locals start thinking about that chair, would it turn into mist then? Or if they knew it was Rosharan, could it stay a bead?

A more simple question, what happens when you try to take a bead out of the cognitive realm and into the physical realm? Would it stay a bead, turn into its physical counterpart, or just not be able to leave?

Also, Shadesmar beads can use stormlight to form their represented objects. How would this work in Scadrial? Could you just burn a metal nearby it? Ingest it and burn that??

I know most of these probably don't have answers yet, so don't feel pressured to answer any of them : / 

[Treamayne]

No WaT Spoilers were used or referenced

1 hour ago, AltonicKeys said:

Humans didn't always have beads. When they first arrived, they probably used something else. So did Shadesmar shift into beads when people started using them widespread?

Shadesmar for any given world is a combination of the World, the Shards present on the world, and the dominant features as perceived by the Sapiant Races of the world. It's likely that on Roshar, Shadesmar was simply gemstones before the Exodus from Ashyn, because the Storms (and stormlight) were alreay parts of the world, and the Singers already used Stormlight and wove gems into their harstrands. It may have been gemstones before the arrival of Honor and Cultivation - since Adonalsium created the Singers and Roshar with the storms already present (even if the may have been gods were different). 

Just as Scadrial's Shadesmar is Mist because Leras and Ati created the planet, with the Mists as a major feature of the Scarial. 

SP5 is supposed to answe many of the Shadesmar questions (knowing Sanderson it will make more questiosn than it answers, though). 

1 hour ago, AltonicKeys said:

What about Ashyn? Was their cognitive realm made of fire? Smoke?

It should not have been, before the coming of Odium and the wars he instigated - but it could be by now, the burning landscape has dominated Ashyn for millenia by this point. 

1 hour ago, AltonicKeys said:

Is the corresponding Shadesmar location full of holey beads?

Unlikely, because Shadesmar is for an entire world and the collective perception of that Whole (like in The Emperor's Soul - a whole seen and perceived as a whole, must be worked with by understanding that whole). If any planet had separate Shadesmar variations, it likely would have been Scadrial during The Final Empire - 1024 years of separation for the Southerners may have been long enough for the SoScad Shadesmar to be different (at least in part) from the Shadesmar we saw in M:SH. 

1 hour ago, AltonicKeys said:

1. If you took a bead of a chair's soul, and you traveled to the Scadrian shadesmar, would the bead turn into a mist version of the chair?
2. Probably not, but if you brought the physical chair from Roshar to Scadrial through space, would that cognitive bead roll through the expanse between worlds?
3. And once the chair touches down on Scadrial, and the locals start thinking about that chair, would it turn into mist then? Or if they knew it was Rosharan, could it stay a bead?

1. Unlikely to be possible, as Kelsier shows us, you cannot take the Cognitive representation of an opbect too far from it's physical Self - he mentions losing items from his "pack" that way (becaue either their person used  the item or he got too far away from it's Physical self).
2. Should not be a factor, once the object is in Shadesmar, it's Phsycial and Cognitive self are likely to align together - after all you don't see a dozen beads chasing Adolin on the way to Lasting Integrity because he has a dozen swords in his bags. 
   • The "bead" is not separate from the physical part, just as the "flame" is not separate from the person's soul - so, just as you do not see a little flame on or around a human in Shadesmar, the "bead" that is the Cognitive representation of a physical object becaomse part of that object as it enters Shadesmar. They are one thing
   • This is also likely part of why "real" items are so much more expensive than Manifested ones - it's a cohesive object with both mind and body in one shell, both in Shadesmar
3. This is less certain, but it seems likely that a physical object would only appear in Shadesmar as the way that world's objects appear in Shadesmar. After all, while it is technically possible that Drifter had zero off-world items on his person when he passed through the Well, it is very unlikely that is the case, but we saw no objects displaying a non-Scadrian shadesmar perception form. Drifter, his clothes and perception were all Mist

1 hour ago, AltonicKeys said:

A more simple question, what happens when you try to take a bead out of the cognitive realm and into the physical realm? Would it stay a bead, turn into its physical counterpart, or just not be able to leave?

Likely unable to leave, but this question has a specific WoB - and that WoB is RAFO:

Spoiler

Jess

The black glass beads in Shadesmar on Roshar. If you could somehow get that material into the Physical Realm, would it hold stormlight?

Brandon Sanderson

So, that's a RAFO. Because getting stuff out of the Cognitive Realm into the Physical Realm is a different matter from taking stuff from the Physical Realm to the Cognitive.

Jess

Well, you don't have to weigh in on whether they could get it to the Physical Realm.

Brandon Sanderson

Still a RAFO!

MisCon 2018 (May 26, 2018)

 

1 hour ago, AltonicKeys said:

Also, Shadesmar beads can use stormlight to form their represented objects. How would this work in Scadrial? Could you just burn a metal nearby it? Ingest it and burn that??

This is answered (at least in part) in Mistborn: Secret History - though the mechanics on Scadrial are unlikely to apply to other worlds because the whole planet, and everything in/on it were made by Ruin and Preservation so they each have a bit more Innate investiture and other things going-on. 

Hope that helps