Mixing objects and beads in Shadesmar

[+Oltux72 he/him]

Suppose I have a cube of sugar and a cup of tea. If I drop the sugar into the tea and start stirring, will the bead representing the lump of sugar dissolve? If so, when? If I put multiple objects into a blender, what will happen to the beads?

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

Suppose I have a cube of sugar and a cup of tea. If I drop the sugar into the tea and start stirring, will the bead representing the lump of sugar dissolve? If so, when? If I put multiple objects into a blender, what will happen to the beads?

The closest WoB we have is:

Spoiler

Questioner

 In Shadesmar you describe the beads, they are like little beads, this big, BB size...

Brandon Sanderson

They are bigger than BB size.

Questioner

Okay, and everything melts into beads. But when people pick them them up, do they form into the thing they are supposed to be, or just one bead represents the stick, and--

Brandon Sanderson

One bead represents the item that is seen and views itself as a cohesive thing. 

Questioner

Is there a picture inside it, or...?

Brandon Sanderson

We will get more into this as time progresses.

Words of Radiance Chicago signing (March 22, 2014)

So, as the person views the sugar and tea becoming "one cohesive thing" then those two beads should combine into the bead of sweetened tea. It may take time depending on:

• how distant to the beads are from each other
• how long it takes the sweetened tea to also view itself as one thing (sweet tea) rather than two things (sugar dissolved in tea)

The same should apply to blending or any other version of combining physical items - such as the table metaphor from Emporer's Soul:

TES Day 12:

Spoiler

Well, you wanted to know how Forgery works, and why the emperor’s soul will be so difficult to reproduce. The Realms are important to this.”

“Very well.”

“Here is the point. The longer an object exists as a whole, and the longer it is seen in that state, the stronger its sense of complete identity becomes. That table is made up of various pieces of wood fitted together, but do we think of it that way? No. We see the whole.

“To Forge the table, I must understand it as a whole. 

Hope that helps

[Quantus he/him]

24 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

The closest WoB we have is:

  Hide contents

Questioner

 In Shadesmar you describe the beads, they are like little beads, this big, BB size...

Brandon Sanderson

They are bigger than BB size.

Questioner

Okay, and everything melts into beads. But when people pick them them up, do they form into the thing they are supposed to be, or just one bead represents the stick, and--

Brandon Sanderson

One bead represents the item that is seen and views itself as a cohesive thing. 

Questioner

Is there a picture inside it, or...?

Brandon Sanderson

We will get more into this as time progresses.

Words of Radiance Chicago signing (March 22, 2014)

So, as the person views the sugar and tea becoming "one cohesive thing" then those two beads should combine into the bead of sweetened tea. It may take time depending on:

• how distant to the beads are from each other
• how long it takes the sweetened tea to also view itself as one thing (sweet tea) rather than two things (sugar dissolved in tea)

The same should apply to blending or any other version of combining physical items - such as the table metaphor from Emperor's Soul:

TES Day 12:

  Reveal hidden contents

Well, you wanted to know how Forgery works, and why the emperor’s soul will be so difficult to reproduce. The Realms are important to this.”

“Very well.”

“Here is the point. The longer an object exists as a whole, and the longer it is seen in that state, the stronger its sense of complete identity becomes. That table is made up of various pieces of wood fitted together, but do we think of it that way? No. We see the whole.

“To Forge the table, I must understand it as a whole. 

Hope that helps

For what it's worth, I assume it's the same timeframe that limits a Bondsmith's ability to use Adhesion to repair broken objects.  

[+Oltux72 he/him]

50 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

So, as the person views the sugar and tea becoming "one cohesive thing" then those two beads should combine into the bead of sweetened tea. It may take time depending on:

The basic issue I have with this answer is that different observers may dramatically disagree about that.

Suppose I count the spheres in my purse and miscount. Does the number of beads representing them change?

[Treamayne]

3 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Suppose I count the spheres in my purse and miscount. Does the number of beads representing them change?

Why would they change? 
You would not have 1 bead representing the purse and all of it's contents. You clearly consider the contents as separate from the container they are in - so there would be a bead for the purse itself and for each item in the purse, including each sphere, and the number of beads in Shadesmar would have nothing to do with how you accurately or inaccurately count their physical self. 

But that is why I also said there were factors in how long it would take for disparate object's cognitive identities (beads) to merge into a single cognitive identity (bead). Take @Quantus's example for comparison. If you are the only one with the tea - then only your perception influences how the objects also perceive themselves. If you are in a room of multiples, then conflicting viewpoints would influence if the disparate cogntive identities change or not, and would likely take longer to make that change (if ever) - but Quantus' example of the broken Temple of Taln was viewed by thousands and was already considered "broken" and "ruined" by most. Many likely also viewed the damage as "irreperable" meanign Dalinar had a much smaller window to effect change (which was greatly helped by the Temple's own cognitive Identity wanting to return to it's nornal state rather than shift to reflect the "broken" perceptions). 

[Quantus he/him]

4 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Why would they change? 
You would not have 1 bead representing the purse and all of it's contents. You clearly consider the contents as separate from the container they are in - so there would be a bead for the purse itself and for each item in the purse, including each sphere, and the number of beads in Shadesmar would have nothing to do with how you accurately or inaccurately count their physical self. 

But that is why I also said there were factors in how long it would take for disparate object's cognitive identities (beads) to merge into a single cognitive identity (bead). Take @Quantus's example for comparison. If you are the only one with the tea - then only your perception influences how the objects also perceive themselves. If you are in a room of multiples, then conflicting viewpoints would influence if the disparate cogntive identities change or not, and would likely take longer to make that change (if ever) - but Quantus' example of the broken Temple of Taln was viewed by thousands and was already considered "broken" and "ruined" by most. Many likely also viewed the damage as "irreperable" meaning Dalinar had a much smaller window to effect change (which was greatly helped by the Temple's own cognitive Identity wanting to return to it's nornal state rather than shift to reflect the "broken" perceptions). 

To that point, it sounds like it'll also depend on the physical nature/Essence of the object in question.  Soulcasting also relies on the self-identity of the object, and by all accounts each Essence has a very different sense of Self and typical path to changing it's Mind about itself.  Soulcasting represent a more dramatic change than simple physical changes (be they creation or destruction), but it's fundamentally the same process for the beads.