How do Heightenings work for Returned Awakeners?

[AleStaar he/him]

Vahr gave Vasher enough Breaths to reach at least the Fourth Heightening. Vahr's minimum of 1000 Breaths added onto Vasher's Divine Breath should have jumped Vasher to the Sixth Heightening. And yet, we never hear of Vasher using the Sixth Heightening. Granted I think it wouldn't be as necessary, since Vasher consistently used his pure skill and experience to casually perform complex Commands. But I still find the lack of Sixth Heightening odd.

Is this because Vasher suppressed his Divine Breath? Or did Endowment set up Divine Breath in a way that Returned Awakeners must reach upper Heightenings from a state of 0 Breaths? 

Speaking of which, I really hope the sequel fleshes out the annotation's idea of Returned Awakeners who wear black, are knowledgeable black is the most powerful color fuel, and have a supply of Breath donors. And I would very interested to learn what Endowment plans for any Returned Awakener's purpose.

[Treamayne]

17 minutes ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

Vahr's minimum of 1000 Breaths added onto Vasher's Divine Breath should have jumped Vasher to the Sixth Heightening. And yet, we never hear of Vasher using the Sixth Heightening.
<snip>
Is this because Vasher suppressed his Divine Breath?

Yes. While a Returned has suppressed (hidden) their Divine Breath, they cannot access that investiture, or the heightenings they would convey. That's why Vasher says "he could have the fifth heightening whenever he wanted." 

21 minutes ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

I really hope the sequel fleshes out the annotation's idea of Returned Awakeners who wear black, are knowledgeable black is the most powerful color fuel, and have a supply of Breath donors. And I would very interested to learn what Endowment plans for any Returned Awakener's purpose.

Part of the purpose of the sequel was to show how Returned and Lifelesss are treated in other parts of the world. 

Spoiler

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Brandon Sanderson

Other Notes

Yes, there are Returned in Idris. There are Returned everywhere in this world that there are people. (The name of this world is Nalthis, by the way. Mistborn takes place on a world called Scadrial, and Elantris on a world known as Sel. See the fun things you learn by reading annotations?)

I'd like someday to do a sequel to Warbreaker, in part because I want to show off all of the different ways people in Nalthis deal with the Returned. They're treated in very strange ways some places. For instance, just across the mountains there's a kingdom where when someone dies in a way that might be heroic, the corpse is immediately purchased by a nobleman hoping to hit the jackpot and get a Returned. You see, since Returned can heal people, keeping one around to act as an emergency insurance plan to restore your health is a great idea.

Warbreaker Annotations (Aug. 10, 2010)

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Graendal

A question that's been on my mind for a while. If Returned can't have children, how are Siri and Vivenna descended from one?

Brandon Sanderson

Excellent question. One I have to RAFO. When I was writing WRBRKR, I was planning on two books.

I seeded two questions to be answered in the next book. One was the origin of the royal family..

The second was how Vasher was able to survive while hiding his divine Breath. I will answer these questions.

Eventually. (It has to do with restoring Breath and life to the child while still in the womb.).

#tweettheauthor 2009 (July 8, 2009)

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Jeremy (paraphrased)

What are the pre-requisites for someone becoming Returned? Does it depend on how much Breath they have?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It does not depend on the quantity of breath, but I'm not revealing the specific pre-requisites, since I need to save something for Nightblood (the book).

When Worlds Collide 2014 (Aug. 9, 2014)

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argel1200

Regarding Ashraven... Would it be correct to say that memories are part of the mind/CR aspect? Assuming so, was Shai forging a new CR aspect to in-effect reconnect Ashraven's Soul (SR) with his body (PR)? I was thinking this could explain how she got his mannerisms correct -- i.e. that those are timeless SR aspects, so she didn't really get those right but instead, the SR connection was re-established?

Brandon Sanderson

Regarding Ashrovan: The problem here is that I don't want to get too deep into these sorts of things, for reasons that I want aspects of the magic to remain subject to discussion for a while yet. Suffice it to say that when we talk about Returned and lifeless in Warbreaker sequels, you'll have more ammunition for understanding what happened in Emperor's Soul.

Stormlight Three Update #4 (Oct. 4, 2016)

 

Hope that helps

[AleStaar he/him]

7 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Yes. While a Returned has suppressed (hidden) their Divine Breath, they cannot access that investiture, or the heightenings they would convey. That's why Vasher says "he could have the fifth heightening whenever he wanted." 

35 minutes ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

Just realized I got the units wrong lmao. Vasher would still be 500 Breaths away from the Sixth! Still though, thanks as always!!

I had absolutely no idea about the second WoB about Vo having children!!! Thank you so much! "It has to do with restoring Breath and life to the child while still in the womb."

Now you got me thinking. I'm going to theorize that Vo didn't die on the eighth day by eating his Divine Breath. He gave up his Divine Breath on the eighth day to bond stable life to his wife's now-impregnated womb. Without that Divine Breath, his impregnation would've either not happened or the child would've been stillborn.

[alder24]

16 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

Is this because Vasher suppressed his Divine Breath?

Yes, WoB:

Spoiler

Mark

It was said throughout the book that you cannot just give some of your breath, but must give all of it. Perhaps I'm simply forgetting part of the book where this changes, but wouldn't Vasher have to give his Returned breath along with his others?

Brandon Sanderson

The "You must give up all of your Breath, not some" line was mostly perpetuated by Denth, who is saying it to Vivenna to stop her from giving away her Breath to all the people she passes. It is a lie. Now, it's a lie that's commonly accepted by a lot of people. But it's still a lie—as we find out midway through the book, you can stick some of your Breath in an object and bring it to life, and then recover that Breath. So it's very easy to give some of your Breath to someone if you know the logical steps to take. Invest most of it into an object, give what you have to someone else, then pull back what you Invested. So it's flat-out proven in the novel that what Denth is telling her is wrong. Now, he could dance around that lie by pretending to be the ignorant mercenary—he's just perpetuating a falsehood that many people believe. But it is a lie. In fact, a lot of the things people believe about BioChromatic Breath isn't true.

One of the things I was trying with this book was to take a few steps back from MISTBORN, where so much was understood. I feel that the approach I took in MISTBORN is right for that book, and yet people have so much superstition regarding all sorts of science. I worry sometimes that there isn't enough superstition in my books, regarding magic as science. What people believed and what people knew and what people understood was so varied and confused throughout most of history, that I worry that I lack realism in that. Vasher brings up at several points in the book that they don't know a whole lot and that people perpetuate a lot of myths and stories and lies.

Vasher has learned to suppress his Returned Breath. When it's suppressed, it's as if it doesn't exist to him. He's Invested it into a place within himself, much like you can Invest your Breaths into a shirt, and when he gives away the rest of his Breaths, he doesn't give that one away. He could split off others of his Breaths if he wanted to—he's learned to do that, so that he could give a few Breaths and not all. It's just a matter of practicing as long as he has. But even people who aren't as practiced as him do it all the time when they Invest an object with not all of their Breath but just enough to bring it to life

Goodreads Fantasy Book Discussion Warbreaker Q&A (Jan. 18, 2010)