Grimdarkness and Roshar in the back half

[Nitpicking]

On 1/16/2025 at 8:51 AM, Ripheus23 said:

I wonder then if we're being told that the second Threnody novel, or at least the relevant story however it ends up being told (indirectly through other books maybe), will have a borderline "the Big Bad wins" outcome.

We know how it comes out. The Evil is still there. The Night Brigade is its grim self, prowling space and devastating worlds.

[Ripheus23]

Just now, Nitpicking said:

We know how it comes out. The Evil is still there. The Night Brigade is its grim self, prowling space and devastating worlds.

You know what, the Brigade is like... the Borg, in a certain way... 

[RedBlue]

33 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

From the Parshendi perspective Wind and Truth ended reasonably well.

The Parshendi are doing better than they have been in previous books, when they were facing complete annihilation.

They are still living on a planet mostly dominated by a hostile Shard, whose existence will soon provoke other Shards to attack. They have to live with a permanent storm, and they rely on Retribution to provide Light. We don’t know what long-term effects this will have on the ecosystem, but it probably won’t be good.

I think that’s pretty bleak.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

On 1/19/2025 at 12:28 AM, RedBlue said:

They are still living on a planet mostly dominated by a hostile Shard,

As opposed to two hostile Shards? And in what regard is Retribution to them? He put Parshendi in command.

On 1/19/2025 at 12:28 AM, RedBlue said:

whose existence will soon provoke other Shards to attack.

That was kind of unavoidable. If Odium lost, they would have faced a hostile Shard as underdogs. If Odium won, same outcome as now.

On 1/19/2025 at 12:28 AM, RedBlue said:

They have to live with a permanent storm,

Well, it is Roshar. There must be a Storm.

On 1/19/2025 at 12:28 AM, RedBlue said:

and they rely on Retribution to provide Light.

And that is worse than getting their light from Honor?

[RedBlue]

5 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

As opposed to two hostile Shards? And in what regard is Retribution to them? He put Parshendi in command.

Again, I’m not arguing that the Listeners’ position is worse than it was before. I’m saying that it’s bad. Retribution is bad news, and living on his planet is a bad position to be in.

5 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

That was kind of unavoidable. If Odium lost, they would have faced a hostile Shard as underdogs. If Odium won, same outcome as now.

Things looked bad, and things are still bad. A huge-scale conflict is coming and they don’t have a way to avoid it — and the fact that Retribution’s Perpendicularity is on their land will likely force their involvement.

5 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Well, it is Roshar. There must be a Storm.

I’m not sure what your point is. The ‘Foreverstorm’ (or whatever you want to call it) is different than the old Highstorms in ways that will cause problems. It’s pretty clearly spelled out in the book.

5 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

And that is worse than getting their light from Honor?

I think so. Taravangian is deliberately arranging things so that people are dependent on him and are constantly reminded of it. He knows the psychological effect it will have on the entire population when they have to pray to him every night. It’s a subtle threat. He is setting himself up to use Light as leverage.

That’s different from what Honor was doing with Stormlight. Tanavast was not a manipulator.
 

And I’m sorry if I missed something, but I’m not sure what your broader point is? Is it that WaT does not have a downer ending because the Listeners specifically are doing relatively okay? Or is this just about nitpicking minor details?

[+Oltux72 he/him]

On 1/20/2025 at 3:43 PM, RedBlue said:

And I’m sorry if I missed something, but I’m not sure what your broader point is? Is it that WaT does not have a downer ending because the Listeners specifically are doing relatively okay? Or is this just about nitpicking minor details?

My broader point is that from the Parshendi position Wind and Truth ended with pretty much the realistic best case. Sure, you can come up with something even better, but I don't see how you would have a realistic hope of getting there.

That on a meta level leads me to ask whether the question of whether the ending is a downer has an objective answer, or it just depends on which side you root for.

[Asininity]

I think the man himself wrapped "grimdarkness" pretty well:

full lecture