Dai-Gonarthis

[TheoreticalMagic]

This is one of the plot points I'm most curious to see followed up on....the price demanded for unleashing her. Which Taravangian was said to be "putting off for now" but also seemed to see as a necessary quid pro quo that even he wasn't exempt from. From what I recall, she wants to break and destroy worlds....and if she, like other spren, is no longer bound to Roshar....she might end up being Taravangian's most terrifying weapon. Even the Fused were afraid of what it meant to unleash her and thought Odium would never do so because the cost would be too high - after all, people fighting over a world generally don't want that world completely destroyed and no longer worth fighting for. But if her "price" can be met by letting her destroy OTHER worlds as Taravangian unleashes her throughout the cosmere....suddenly she goes from being a potential mutually assured destruction option to a world-breaker who could viably see a lot of action. I think dealing with her before she can be unleashed on the rest of the cosmere might be a major plot point for the second half of the series. 

Thoughts?

Edited January 14, 2025 by TheoreticalMagic

[JohnnyKaizen he/him]

Personally, I don't like the existing of a destroyer of worlds. They exist, that's not what I'm saying. But what world would Sanderson be willing to destroy? Scadrial? Nalthis? Threnody?

My point being, fighting Dai-Gonarthis would be absolutely of the highest stakes...fail and the planet is splintered/ruined/scorched/whatever. But the second whole worlds are destroyed, what's the countermove that doesn't involve the risk of destroying the entirety of the Cosmere? Dai-Gonarthis needs to be dealt with, but I don't know who would do it? 

[TheoreticalMagic]

Yeah, in my head I kinda liken Dai-Gonarthis to being Annihilation, if we were to imagine the Unmade as Splinters of Odium big enough to have their own intent. That's not quite what they are, of course, but thematically I think it makes a lot of sense to picture Dai-Gonarthis as being born of the part of Odium that's just pure, destructive, all-encompassing hatred for everything....nihilism for the sake of nihilism. I think existentially she's something that even Odium/Retribution might realize they can't really control, because again from a thematic angle, the self-destructive nature of total annihilation is at best you get a Pyrrhic victory when you unleash something like that. So what I'm wondering is if maybe someone at some point might be able to "defeat" Dai-Gonarthis by getting Retribution to absorb her back into himself, Unmake her again, by setting things up to make him realize that keeping her on the board is ultimately going to cost him more than it would gain him? But basically I just mean it might be that only Retribution can actually deal with her without escalating a conflict to world-destroying proportions. 

Edited January 14, 2025 by TheoreticalMagic

[Returned he/him]

I don't think that the price can be that high. Like the other Unmade, Dai-Gonarthis has existed for a long time and presumably did more than nothing in the previous Desolations, but no planets were destroyed that we know of during those times. Additionally, what they got in calling upon Dai-Gonarthis in WaT was almost nothing: she moved a bunch of soldiers from one place to another, and that didn't even accomplish their goal. Had it worked, Taravangian would have owned the Shattered Plains and isolated Urithiru. Not something worth sacrificing a planet Taravangian cared about for, and if he can just point her at some planet he doesn't care about then the price wouldn't be so dire.

My reading is that WaT implied that Taravangian would have to pay the price personally in some way, though that may not be accurate. It's hard to think of a price that a dual-Sharded deity would struggle to pay, or even notice paying, if it's something physical or material like destruction. I don't have a lot to go on, but based on the death rattle from WoK and Jezrien's thought in Oathbringer that Dai-Gonarthis might have somehow caused Dalinar's pain, my guess is this: Dai-Gonarthis connects to a person and nurtures sorrow in them either mystically, directly, or causally.

By "mystically" I mean she transforms something: she takes something you loved and inflects it so that it only brings you pain and sorrow. Something like taking all the memories leading to Dalinar's pride and affection for Adolin and only leaving the bitter moments between them. By "causally" I mean something mundane in mechanism but important to the person paying the price, sort of like Taravangian loving his family and city but destroying them-- a direct sacrifice which can't be cheated because the price is the pain it causes you. By "directly" I mean something like Dai-Gonarthis riding a person and causing them anguish while doing so, which is the least interesting of the three but might be significant to Taravangian now that his injuries and pains do not fade or recover.

Edited January 14, 2025 by Returned

[Asininity]

There's definitely something fishy going on with Elsegates and the surge of Transportation. It seems this surge has been intentionally limited far more than any of the others, which raises question about reasons behind those limitations. Even Elsecallers, who specialize in the surge of Transportation, cannot fully utilize it. The spren of the Oathgates were explicitly forbidden from granting passage to humans. The only modern-era instance of using Transportation involved an Honorblade, which operates outside the normal constraints imposed on Radiants, spren, or Fused. However, even that usage was limited to movement between the Cognitive and Physical Realms.

This limitation stands in stark contrast to historical feats, such as Ishar’s ability to hold open a massive Elsegate between two planets during the arrival of the Voidbringers. That portal was large enough to transport an entire nation and existed fully in the Physical Realm—a feat that seems far beyond anything modern Radiants can achieve.

The notion of Physical-to-Physical transportation is important because portals break the fundamental laws of physics, allowing manipulation of energy, matter and natural forces that should not be possible. It opens infinite possibilities to cause destruction on unprecedented scale. Infinite loops of energy, violation of conservation laws, FTL travel, gravity manipulation, crazy pressure and thermal differentials. Opening a portal to the bottom of the ocean seems mundane in comparison.

Now consider the possibility that the Black Fisher, has access to an unbound surge of Transportation. A sentient, ancient being, driven mad with hatred has access to the same power that torn Ashyn apart. That should make anyone wary of employing her.

Evidence points to Dai-Gonarthis being involved in catastrophic event on Roshar - the Scouring of Aimia.

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The Aimian Sea near the islands became very dangerous, with strange winds and storms that seem to originate in the islands.^[7] In particular, one constant storm surrounds the island of Akinah.^[7][39][40] Akinah is now surrounded by a wall of Soulcast stone spikes that are forty feet tall, with additional spikes underwater to deter ships.^[7] Kaza believes that the spikes must have been created by multiple Soulcasters working together.^[7]

Hessi theorized that an Unmade, possibly Dai-Gonarthis, caused the destruction of Aimia.

Another unsolved mystery that seems to fit very well is the Origin of Highstorms:

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Additionally, some stories suggest that there may be an "origin" that can be reached by sailing west from the Rosharan continent. One such myth is Derethil and the Wandersail. In the story, King Derethil, sailing far to the west in hopes of finding the source of the Voidbringers, finds a whirlpool where the ocean drains, likely known as the "Great Abyss". - https://coppermind.net/wiki/Origin#:~:text=Additionally%2C some stories,the "Great Abyss".

To me, it sounds like there might be a permanent wormhole connecting Aimia and the Origin. The amount of water alone would easily explain unnatural weather conditions and lead to environmental collapse. Causing such catastrophe could also explain why Odium would want to avoid it.
Maybe that's how the Unmade got his moniker? Black Fisher - the Great Abyss - moving stormload of water, dunno but found this parallel entertaining.