The Weapon that Taln Mentions

[OverlordBob999]

Spoiler

Somewhat unsure of if this is exactly spoilers so just in case 

Relevant Summary: During one of the visions in the Spiritual Realm of the history of Roshar / also the heralds, Nale recommends Taln to be the tenth because of his previous interactions with a Shard. We then learn that he tried to kill Cultivation, and that Kalak had given him a weapon to help him accomplish this (now I am not entirely certain that it is explicitly stated that Kalak provided Taln with the weapon specifically in order to kill Cultivation, but I feel like that's really the only thing that makes sense because why else would he have done so - they weren't fighting Odium yet, life was fine (minus the magic diseases and fires) over on Ashyn, and Tanavast wasn't mentioned). Taln also then says that he lost it. 

Theory: I think that Nightblood was the weapon that Kalak gave to Taln. Since they knew nothing of anti-Investiture (presumably - Raboniel also didn't), I would imagine that NB is really the only thing that they would think of that would help Taln kill Cultivation. My theory is also that Cultivation then took NB from Taln, which is how it ends up with the Nightwatcher. Though I have no clue how Kalak would have acquired it. 

Evidence: 

• The vagueness around it. What else would it be at this point. They already have Surges, honorblades and Radiant spren (Shardblades) don't exist yet, and there's also no anti-Investiture. 
• The fact that Cultivation somehow ends up with Nightblood. 
• The fact that Nale, when giving the blade to Szeth, is very knowledgeable about it, as though he has experience with it

Idk what do yall think. 

Edit: Crap I just realized that NB was patterned after Shardblades and those weren't around yet. Never mind. Sounded cool though. Wondering about yalls ideas of what the weapon was though. 

Edited January 13, 2025 by OverlordBob999

[TheoreticalMagic]

Spoiler

I feel like it almost HAS to be one of the Dawnshards, most likely the Change or Connect one. We already know the Change one ends up on Roshar, Dawnshards are mentioned in myths about the Tranquiline Halls (specifically the line about binding all creatures, voidish and mortal makes me think of the oft-theorized Bind/Connect/Unite Dawnshard), so the timing works out for one or more to have been brought to Roshar from Alaswha....the Dawnshards are frequently referred to as the weapons or weapon (collectively) that killed Adonalsium....and frankly, that early in the cosmere timeline, I can't imagine what other notably powerful weapons COULD be worth mentioning, as most hadn't been invented or created yet. Odds are, Taln tried employing one of the 'primordial weapons' of the cosmere against Cultivation....its more a matter of WHICH Dawnshard it was specifically, IMO.

Course, I also really want to know what the hell happened that had him gunning for Cultivation of all the gods. At that point, it doesn't SEEM like she'd done anything and Honor and Odium are much more viable targets to blame for what happened on Alaswha and the exodus....and Taln seems to have been regarded as pretty reasonable from the start, so unlikely to pick a target like Cultivation without specific cause. But then again, we also know from what happened in Taravangian's city that Cultivation isn't above being ruthless when she feels its for a greater good or necessary.....so I wonder if she decided early on to try and take some drastic action to head off the building conflict between the humans and Singers, and somebody Taln cared about got caught in the crossfire?

 

[Argenti he/him]

36 minutes ago, OverlordBob999 said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Somewhat unsure of if this is exactly spoilers so just in case 

Relevant Summary: During one of the visions in the Spiritual Realm of the history of Roshar / also the heralds, Nale recommends Taln to be the tenth because of his previous interactions with a Shard. We then learn that he tried to kill Cultivation, and that Kalak had given him a weapon to help him accomplish this (now I am not entirely certain that it is explicitly stated that Kalak provided Taln with the weapon specifically in order to kill Cultivation, but I feel like that's really the only thing that makes sense because why else would he have done so - they weren't fighting Odium yet, life was fine (minus the magic diseases and fires) over on Ashyn, and Tanavast wasn't mentioned). Taln also then says that he lost it. 

Theory: I think that Nightblood was the weapon that Kalak gave to Taln. Since they knew nothing of anti-Investiture (presumably - Raboniel also didn't), I would imagine that NB is really the only thing that they would think of that would help Taln kill Cultivation. My theory is also that Cultivation then took NB from Taln, which is how it ends up with the Nightwatcher. Though I have no clue how Kalak would have acquired it. 

Evidence: 

• The vagueness around it. What else would it be at this point. They already have Surges, honorblades and Radiant spren (Shardblades) don't exist yet, and there's also no anti-Investiture. 
• The fact that Cultivation somehow ends up with Nightblood. 
• The fact that Nale, when giving the blade to Szeth, is very knowledgeable about it, as though he has experience with it

Idk what do yall think. 

Edit: Crap I just realized that NB was patterned after Shardblades and those weren't around yet. Never mind. Sounded cool though. Wondering about yalls ideas of what the weapon was though. 

22 minutes ago, TheoreticalMagic said:

  Reveal hidden contents

I feel like it almost HAS to be one of the Dawnshards, most likely the Change or Connect one. We already know the Change one ends up on Roshar, Dawnshards are mentioned in myths about the Tranquiline Halls (specifically the line about binding all creatures, voidish and mortal makes me think of the oft-theorized Bind/Connect/Unite Dawnshard), so the timing works out for one or more to have been brought to Roshar from Alaswha....the Dawnshards are frequently referred to as the weapons or weapon (collectively) that killed Adonalsium....and frankly, that early in the cosmere timeline, I can't imagine what other notably powerful weapons COULD be worth mentioning, as most hadn't been invented or created yet. Odds are, Taln tried employing one of the 'primordial weapons' of the cosmere against Cultivation....its more a matter of WHICH Dawnshard it was specifically, IMO.

Course, I also really want to know what the hell happened that had him gunning for Cultivation of all the gods. At that point, it doesn't SEEM like she'd done anything and Honor and Odium are much more viable targets to blame for what happened on Alaswha and the exodus....and Taln seems to have been regarded as pretty reasonable from the start, so unlikely to pick a target like Cultivation without specific cause. But then again, we also know from what happened in Taravangian's city that Cultivation isn't above being ruthless when she feels its for a greater good or necessary.....so I wonder if she decided early on to try and take some drastic action to head off the building conflict between the humans and Singers, and somebody Taln cared about got caught in the crossfire?

 

Just so you both know, all cosmere spoilers are allowed on this subforum, except unreleased books. 

 

[Darth_Hel]

I was thinking it was probably the Change Dawnshard, and that it’s possible that Change wouldn’t work on Cultivation because her intent is already based around Change.

So, these combined scene could be interesting if Taln shows up with what should be a powerful weapon and it fails to do anything. Gets a lecture on how little he understands. 

Although who knows, maybe it would work more.
 

 

[OverlordBob999]

I know that the other two unknown Dawnshards are often theorized about, but given the focus in Vorinism and from Tanavast on Dawnshards (plural) I think it is then possible that there was a different Dawnshard in the Rosharan system at one point. Obviously, the emphasis on keeping them separated means that there probably weren't multiple near each other, or even on the same planet - making it possible for Kalak to have acquired the Ashyn Dawnshard and given it to Taln. This would likely mean that the Aimia Dawnshard was in the possession of the Dawnsingers/Sleepless (as an aside, are the Sleepless native to Roshar? Their physiology suggests to me that they almost certainly are), which would also then inform the Vorin connection between the Dawnshards and the Dawnsingers. 

[Darth_Hel]

There were at least two. The Change Dawnshard that Rysn has, and Hoid/Zellion’s Exist Dawnshard.

[coolsnow7]

5 hours ago, OverlordBob999 said:

  Hide contents

 

Edit: Crap I just realized that NB was patterned after Shardblades and those weren't around yet. Never mind. Sounded cool though. Wondering about yalls ideas of what the weapon was though. 

But for all we know Nightblood was also patterned based on this weapon, or both the weapon and Nightblood were tapping into the same mechanic. I would keep your theorizing alive; so far Nightblood is the only thing that we’ve seen that can allow a human to kill a Shard’s Vessel, so it’s a decent candidate for whatever this weapon was.

[Ripheus23]

7 minutes ago, coolsnow7 said:

But for all we know Nightblood was also patterned based on this weapon, or both the weapon and Nightblood were tapping into the same mechanic. I would keep your theorizing alive; so far Nightblood is the only thing that we’ve seen that can allow a human to kill a Shard’s Vessel, so it’s a decent candidate for whatever this weapon was.

Hmm, I would counter, though, with: getting Nightblood into position to strike Rayse took a certain effort, and I wonder that Taln would have been given to manifest in the Spiritual Realm in the appropriate way?

I also find it weird that, in the scenes we get with Cultivation, she never seems to indicate anything relevant to what happened with Taln long ago. She either forgave him early on, or found his attempt too inconsequential to be more than amusing, like a little ant bite or something maybe. At any rate, she doesn't seem overtly worried about Taln eventually trying again. So she has a reason for this, and one reason for this might be that Taln's own attitude changed back then, like whatever made him upset enough with her to attack her was something he got over to a good enough extent.

So, it seems possible that the method of attack was tied to the kind of opportunity Taln thought he had. He had every reason to be incensed enough with Odium to go after that Shard had he the means to go after any. Ditto for Honor. So why Cultivation instead?

Wild guess: something about the Night's fading from Roshar tugged at Taln, due to his Spiritual sense of Stone (i.e. the predisposition to his patronage of the Stonewards). The role of the Nightwatcher in the drama of the departing Night made him mind something about what was possible in this context. If Taln knew of the boon/bane principle, might he have tried to use the Nightwatcher to kill Cultivation, by performing a sort of "reverse word-trickery genie" maneuver on her? I know the lore says that there's no "make sure you word it right" rule in effect, in actuality, but do we know whether everyone has always known this? Maybe Taln, at that time, thought that the Nightwatcher was tricky to deal with. But that doesn't need to be the point: we could say just, "The trickery was on Taln's end, this idea he might've had that he could ask the Nightwatcher to destroy Cultivation, or perhaps even ask Cultivation to do this herself. He might've overestimated the mandate of the giving of boons and banes, mistakenly conceiving that the Nightwatcher (or Cultivation) had to do such a thing," or even more indirectly, "He might've thought to ask for something that he thought would lead to his goal."

[QuantumAce]

On 1/13/2025 at 7:15 PM, OverlordBob999 said:

(as an aside, are the Sleepless native to Roshar? Their physiology suggests to me that they almost certainly are)

The Sleepless are not from Roshar

 

Quote

 

Wyndlerunner

The Sleepless. They’re not from Roshar. Do they have a single origin point in the cosmere? And if so, have we seen it?

Brandon Sanderson

They do have a single origin point in the cosmere. You have not seen it.

Dragonsteel 2022 (Nov. 14, 2022)

 

 

[OverlordBob999]

39 minutes ago, QuantumAce said:

The Sleepless are not from Roshar

 

 

Many thanks

[Darth_Hel]

Quote

SamsonOption48

They are not native to Roshar and yet they fit among the Rosharan cremlings so perfectly... So was Rosharan fauna based off of another planet? Or are the crab species on Roshar invasive and from wherever the Sleepless are from? Or are only Rosharan sSleepless made up of crabs because they melded with the local species? Or do living things in the Cosmere evolve into crabs alarmingly often just like in our universe and its a coincidence?

Brandon Sanderson

The ones on other planets will look less like cremlings. Realize that a swarm is always evolving. The first swarm's hordelings were more spider-like when it first came to Roshar.

Dawnshard Annotations Reddit Q&A (Nov. 6, 2020

This is why they seem well suited