Trusk'our he/him Posted January 4, 2025 Posted January 4, 2025 (edited) Finished WaT a few hours before the new year and I have a few things from it that piqued my curiosity, particularly relating to Investiture and Cosmere mechanics. 1. PG 63: Towerlight leaves as soon as a Radiant departs Urithuru. Could this be similar to Allomancy (and maybe Feruchemy)? A big source of the Investiture holding on the giving end reclaims it immediately after the "bond" is lost? It's also likely that Allomancy just automatically diverts it to a specific task, but still. 2. PG 78: Shallan took Dhrey's Lashing for Stormlight. Perhaps she can change her Identity enough through cognitive gymnastics? She is the daughter of a Herald, which complicates things, but if this is possible it unlocks some interesting things for Feruchemy, like sharing Metalminds. 3. PG 84: Stormlight attracts Shadesmar beads, but they "hate" Voidlight. Voidlight can still Command it though, even without Soulcasting, as Heavenly Ones can do so. Is this a bit like how Era 1 Mistborn had Allomancy, Hemalurgy, and the Mists interact? Not that they actually control the Mists, just that there's an interesting correlation present. 4. PG 89: Spren, or at least Honorspren, can alter their appearance in the PR with effort. Eventually they will always change back to their original shape. Might be similar to how the Royal Locks can change appearance, but are bound by one's base form. 5. PG 177: Szeth's after image reduces with time, which makes it seem like his Spiritweb is healing. Could this be like how Shardblade injuries heal with time? This would also support the idea that injures from Hemalurgy that are patched up with F-gold won't leave truly permanent marks. 6. PG 178: Taravangian holding Odium changes the Shard's Tone- meaning a Vessel changes the Tone of a Shard by adding their own Identity/perception, filtering it. I think this supports the my hypothesis that Identity is like a personalized Rhythm. 7. PG 179: Formal agreements made by Vessels bind the Shard and later Vessels too, but lesser promises don't hold sway over new Vessels. 8. PG 185:The Sibling mentions that their beats can drive Singers mad. This seems to imply that Rhythms can be used as a direct form of attack. Technically, Navani already sort of did this to Moash in RoW, but getting more confirmation is good. 9. PG 194: Radiant Spren (and Lightweavings) can infuse White Sand. Even when the sand is in a jar, somehow. Do they leak Investiture passively then? 10. PG 200: Shards themselves, not just Vessels, have an Identity. This supports the idea that "keying" Investiture has to do with Identity to a given Shard. 11. PG 226-227: it seems possible to alter and individualize Lesser Spren when thinking of them as individuals with names, and by complimenting them. Possibly even training them. 12. PG 257-258: Anti-Light is not deadly or harmful to a Radiant if not taken simultaneously with normal Light. 13. PG 269: the Sibling strongly implies that they have Lifesense, strong enough to detect bacteria. 14. PG 413: it seems that crystal spikes can be used to grant a version of Steelsight, or at least something similar. I'm gonna just guess right now that this method doesn't steal fragments of Spiritweb, but instead relies on trapping Spren in gemstones, then implanting them in another being like Scadrial's Hemalurgy. I'm also guessing this is only tangentially related to Scadrial's version of Hemalurgy, in the same way Nalthian Investiture isn't the only way to Awaken something. Pretty interesting. 15. PG 427: it seems that beings in the SR can create things either from memory (to create something unique) or from Connections and Tones (for a simulation of the past or future). 16. PG 502: anyone with Stormlight (and probably other Investiture?) can command Shadesmar beads, even if not a Radiant. 17. PG 632: Tanavast implies that numbers can have power with the Oathpact. Sixteen or ten work well, but not nine. Why? Does the symbolism matter to the Investiture? 18. PG 711: Renarin brings up that things up that things might be able to be taken from the SR. This could be similar to taking obsidian from the CR that's used to Soulcast. Wonder what could be taken from there, if a person traveled a Perpendicularity? 19. PG 711: Glys brings up that Anti-Light may not affect humans directly because there is too low a concentration of Investiture to react. 20. PG 792-793: there is an odd Fabrial here, binoculars that let you seemingly track living things, and require you to acknowledge it. A lot of modern Fabrials rely on mechanical abilities rather than direct Intent (though to be fair, Spanreeds rely on perception), which is interesting to see introduced. 21. PG 816: perception can change Connection, it seems. Finding similarities between you and someone else forges a Connection. 22. PG 828: Ash says that one's appearance is affected by your Identity, which is in turn is affected by your self perception (which also ties back to Shallan's Lashing absorption trick). We technically already knew this via WoB, but it's good to get in-world confirmation. Spoiler https://wob.coppermind.net/events/127-salt-lake-city-comiccon-2017/#e5187 Questioner I've got a Mistborn question for you. So, Identity? Can you store, like-- is your physical appearance part of your Identity? Brandon Sanderson It is to some people. To most people, it's a part of it, yes.... I don't know the answer-- don't take that as "You can store that." and things like that. It's involved. There are certain things you can do. But it's not as simple as it might have sounded, what I just implied. Questioner So, does that apply to your Identity, if you're in the Cognitive Realm? Or the Physical Realm? Can you store that? Brandon Sanderson The reason you look like you do in the Cognitive Realm is because it's Identity, things like that. I'm not gonna talk about specifically how storing that works really. Although there is the idea that your soul is the key to Investiture and stuff like that. 23. PG 862: BAM (and later Ishar) was able to infuse herself with Odium's Perpendicularity to gain great power. So a Spren or other being can steal a significant portion of Investiture this way? Maybe a double duralumin Twinborn could merge with Harmony's Perpendicularity, gaining tons of Investiture to mess with. Also, I'm guessing that this is more than just grabbing a big chunk of Investiture, as that would basically just be grabbing some Dor in a jar. This seems more like a lingering, semi permanent boost (unless you're trapped in a gem, severing the Connection). 24. PG 937: Szeth's Spren says that personal separation between Skybreakers and their Spren prevents them from turning to Deadeyes. Is this related, perhaps, to how Adolin's personal Connections to Maya seem to have helped heal her? 25. PG 974: Hoid has a different Dawnshard from Rysn. I genuinely thought they had the same one, but looks like I was wrong. 26. PG 976: Honor's Investiture, with no Vessel, wanted to be used, making the visions related to it far more stable. So, Vision tricks via Perpendicularity may not be on the table. Unfortunately. 27. PG 1,028: Kaladin believes his armor is stronger than regular Shardplate, and relies on Connection to the SR instead of gemstones. It seems to not need Stormlight from the Radiant to directly feed off of. I would guess it would regenerate without Stormlight (using the SR instead) over time. 28. PG 1,031: Nale has abilities as a Herald, they seem to be incredible speed and strength, as well as the ability to draw and despose of Stormlight at a distance. Didn't know they could do that, but the Fused being terrified of them makes a lot more sense now. 29. PG 1,129-1,131: Vessels can lose their Shards if they go against the Intent too much. Tanavast lost Honor, though it seems he had enough of a tie to it to repossess it if he chose an aligning action (like attacking Rayse). 30. PG 1,170: at least some Heralds began losing their innate powers over time. We know the level of Investiture a Herald has is related to their alignment with Honor's Intent, so could this weakening be because they began to stray further from Honor's ideals? 31. PG 1,171: a Bondsmith can create a Cognitive Shadow, attaching them to a new host without access to Honor's direct power, but easier methods rely on taking over bodies. Given how Odium was limited in the amount of Investiture he could give his servants, this makes sense. 32. PG 1,188: aluminum can potentially prevent a Shardblade from being summoned. Maybe Maya was on the other side of it? 33. PG 1,191: Dalinar's facial hair shows his body thinks he was in the SR only for a few days. Could someone jumping in a Perpendicularity jump forward in time using this method? Could be a plausible explanation for an Era 1 Scadrian popping up in Era 2, for RPG purposes. 34. PG 1,171: Given that Ishar wanted to create soldiers with new Surgebinding abilities and all the Spren captured with gem spikes, could he have been planning on using Rosharan Hemalurgy? Also, given that he wanted physical Spren for warriors, I wonder if their innate Surgebinding would be accessible to them, like how a Mistborn has innate powers. 35. PG 1,252: Anti-Stormight used against corrupted Spren will not completely destroy them, just injure by burning away Honor's Investiture. Makes sense, as they're comprised of multiple Investitures. Maybe Cultivationspren would be safer from Anti-Stormlight as well, since they're entirely comprised of a different Investiture? Or, if a human had multiple Investitures (like an Allomancer with Breath) they might be more durable against a single type of Anti-Light. 36. PG 1,256: Ishar can move fast enough he creates a popping sound. This probably isn't quite BoM level speed as it doesn't create an actual sonic boom (which I assume Kaladin would have commented on), but it's probably within the realm of plausibility for Heralds should they want. If so. . . yeah, okay, I'm not sure if a Fullborn is the top dogs of non-Vessel Cosmere anymore. Heralds don't even need metal for their innate powers, they can just do it at will it seems. 37. PG 1,097: the Heralds were eventually able to "draw on the powers of Roshar" instead of just Honor's Surges. Not sure what exactly this is referring to (I'm thinking it's not just bonding Radiant Spren), but I'm at least guessing that they bypassed Tanavast's limitation of power in a way similar to how Allomancy doesn't seem to weaken Preservation when used (at least when naturally occurring and not created directly by Preservation). Spoiler https://wob.coppermind.net/events/243-hero-of-ages-qa-time-wasters-guide/#e6072 Kaimipono Allomancy is fueled by Preservation's body? How exactly does that work? And how does that interact with Atium—it's fueled by both gods' bodies? Brandon Sanderson The powers of Ruin and Preservation are Shards of Adonalsium, pieces of the power of creation itself. Allomancy, Hemalurgy, Feruchemy are manifestations of this power in mortal form, the ability to touch the powers of creation and use them. These metallic powers are how people's physical forms interpret the use of the Shard, though it's not the only possible way they could be interpreted or used. It's what the genetics and Realmatic interactions of Scadrial allow for, and has to do with the Spiritual, the Cognitive, and the Physical Realms. Condensed 'essence' of these godly powers can act as super-fuel for Allomancy, Feruchemy, or really any of the powers. The form of that super fuel is important. In liquid form it's most potent, in gas form it's able to fuel Allomancy as if working as a metal. In physical form it is rigid and does one specific thing. In the case of atium, it allows sight into the future. In the case of concentrated Preservation, it gives one a permanent connection to the mists and the powers of creation. (I.e., it makes them an Allomancer.) So when a person is burning metals, they aren't using Preservation's body as a fuel so to speak—though they are tapping into the powers of creation just slightly. When Vin burns the mists, however, she'd doing just that—using the essence of Preservation, the Shard of Adonalsium itself—to fuel Allomancy. Doing this, however, rips 'troughs' through her body. It's like forcing far too much pressure through a very small, fragile hose. That much power eventually vaporizes the corporeal host, which is acting as the block and forcing the power into a single type of conduit (Allomancy) and frees it to be more expansive. 38. Oh yeah, and Nightblood can just. . . give Surges now. That's probably worth mentioning. I'm guessing it could learn to mimic other powers, which could prove interesting. In some ways, it might become like a mini-Shard, able to weild Investiture however it wants, given it has access to enough. Anyway, thoughts to add? Edited January 5, 2025 by Trusk'our 6
Heilven he/him Posted January 5, 2025 Posted January 5, 2025 At the very least you missed mentioning Taln's scene where he moved imperceptibly fast. I haven't seen any real conversation about Shallan's apparent identity manipulation, but I've been thinking about it a lot. It seems interesting to note which special abilities of hers are due to her two bonds or her herald heritage. I didn't think too much about the beads avoiding voidlight, it does sound interestingly similar to the mist's reaction to hemalurgy. I've had my own pet theory that the effect of odium's investiture caused the heralds to align with the opposite of their intents, rather than what is usual. It's very interesting because of how similar and yet different the cases of roshar and scadrial are in this regard. On one hand, the effects seem very similar, but the possible explanations seem totally unrelated. In the case of scadrial, possible explanations are the powers hating each other, or them being opposite. This just isn't true for roshar, since the powers clearly don't hate each other, and Honor didn't have a vessel. Honestly it seems unexpected that the beads would pull away from voidlight, considering the fact that odium is fully assimilated into roshar, or at least that is what everyone has been saying. You also forgot everything involving the fourth moon, and the four tones involved in the song sung by the chasmfiends during the highstorm. I have a lot of my own thoughts on this, and I think it warrants quite a lot of discussion. 2
therunner he/him Posted January 5, 2025 Posted January 5, 2025 8 hours ago, Trusk'our said: 1. PG 63: Towerlight leaves as soon as a Radiant departs Urithuru. Could this be similar to Allomancy (and maybe Feruchemy)? A big source of the Investiture holding on the giving end reclaims it immediately after the "bond" is lost? I think this is less similar to Allomancy, and more due to Sibling not being a Shard. Their power is not omnipresent, but only around their physical location. Quote 2. PG 78: Shallan took Dhrey's Lashing for Stormlight. Perhaps she can change her Identity enough through cognitive gymnastics? She is the daughter of a Herald, which complicates things, but if this is possible it unlocks some interesting things for Feruchemy, like sharing Metalminds. I think it is multiple factors that let her do this: She is daughter of Herald as you say, and CS and their offspring are more 'maleable'. Her DID (if it is that) makes her well suited to assuming other Identities. She touched Drehy's Cognitive flame back in Oathbringer I think? Which let her experience what is it like to be Drehy (i.e. his Identity). So she is more changeable, has experience with other Identities, and directly experience this Identity previously. It is confirmation that it is theoretically possible to shift Identity, but likely very difficult. Quote 5. PG 177: Szeth's after image reduces with time, which makes it seem like his Spiritweb is healing. Could this be like how Shardblade injuries heal with time? Szeth's injury is not like Shardblade injury, and I don't think those heal with time at all (someone would have noticed if that was the case). It is more like what happened to Wax in BoM, he died, but his soul did not yet pass to Beyond so could be re-attached. (Though Szeth was likely a bit more separated from his body than Wax was). Quote This would also support the idea that injures from Hemalurgy that are patched up with F-gold won't leave truly permanent marks. I doubt that, and Szeth case has no information relevant to it, as he never suffered wound to soul. Quote 9. PG 194: Radiant Spren (and Lightweavings) can infuse White Sand. Even when the sand is in a jar, somehow. Do they leak Investiture passively then? Likely yes, but in tiny amounts. Humans leak energy all the time (thermal radiation), so spren giving off 'Investiture radiation' is likely. It is not enough to be relevant in most cases, but enough to be metabolized by specialized organism (like those living on the White Sand). It is possible that life sense works on similar principles. Quote 14. PG 413: it seems that crystal spikes can be used to grant a version of Steelsight, or at least something similar. I'm gonna just guess right now that this method doesn't steal fragments of Spiritweb, but instead relies on trapping Spren in gemstones, then implanting them in another being like Scadrial's Hemalurgy. I'm also guessing this is only tangentially related to Scadrial's version of Hemalurgy, in the same way Nalthian Investiture isn't the only way to Awaken something. I think this method could also steal fragments of Spiritweb, as gemstones are better at holding Investiture than metal (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/522/#e16311) and we saw spren be spiked by gemstones in Shinovar. Plus Battar was working in Taravangian's secrets hospitals, giving her ample opportunity to practice at Hemalurgy. So I think it is nearly the same as Scadrian Hemalurgy, but using somewhat better medium. Quote 17. PG 632: Tanavast implies that numbers can have power with the Oathpact. Sixteen or ten work well, but not nine. Why? Does the symbolism matter to the Investiture? We can only guess at why, but we do know that Shards can have numbers associated with them. 16 is generally powerful as it is the number of Shards. 10 would be good as it is the number of Honor/Tanavast and so represents binding. 9 is number of Odium, and so would not be good to use when trying to bind it. (Could also be another reason why Heralds were driven mad, as 9 abandoned it). Quote 19. PG 711: Glys brings up that Anti-Light may not affect humans directly because there is too low a concentration of Investiture to react. Makes sense, from TSM we know that even on very Invested worlds, humans rarely surpass ~3 BEUs. Quote 3. PG 862: BAM (and later Ishar) was able to infuse herself with Odium's Perpendicularity to gain great power. So a Spren or other being can steal a significant portion of Investiture this way? Also, I'm guessing that this is more than just grabbing a big chunk of Investiture, as that would basically just be grabbing some Dor in a jar. This seems more like a lingering, semi permanent boost (unless you're trapped in a gem, severing the Connection). I think this is less formalized way of what happens at Well of Ascension, both TLR and Vin took up power of the Well, which is Shardpool of Preservation, which then slowly refilled. So same principle here I think, but Preservation possibly modified it so that it is only temporary. Alternatively, you need power of Connection (which both Ishar and BAM have) to make the 'mini-Ascension' permanent. Quote Maybe a double duralumin Twinborn could merge with Harmony's Perpendicularity, gaining tons of Investiture to mess with. While yes, they would also be restricted by Harmony's Intent. Plus they likely don't have knowledge to make it permanent, and Harmony could take it back (Odium likely couldn't due to Shard being against it, and him being first bound on Braize and then not knowing where BAM is). Quote 27. PG 1,028: Kaladin believes his armor is stronger than regular Shardplate, and relies on Connection to the SR instead of gemstones. It seems to not need Stormlight from the Radiant to directly feed off of. I would guess it would regenerate without Stormlight (using the SR instead) over time. Makes sense, we already saw that Jasnah's used Stormlight only to heal itself fast in combat. Quote 28. PG 1,031: Nale has abilities as a Herald, they seem to be incredible speed and strength, as well as the ability to draw and despose of Stormlight at a distance. Didn't know they could do that, but the Fused being terrified of them makes a lot more sense now. I'll add that this also explains Kaladin's 'atium' moment in the Duel in WoR, with dodging. He was likely drawing on the same power, as a sort of echo of his future as Herald. Quote 30. PG 1,170: at least some Heralds began losing their innate powers over time. We know the level of Investiture a Herald has is related to their alignment with Honor's Intent, so could this weakening be because they began to stray further from Honor's ideals? Likely, also them going against Oathpact would diminish them. Similar to Radiant Oaths, but more free flowing, then gated. Quote 31. PG 1,171: a Bondsmith can create a Cognitive Shadow, attaching them to a new host without access to Honor's direct power, but easier methods rely on taking over bodies. Ishar had to use the stolen power of Odium, so it still likely requires large infusion of Investiture. Quote 35. PG 1,252: Anti-Stormight used against corrupted Spren will not completely destroy them, just injure by burning away Honor's Investiture. Makes sense, as they're comprised of multiple Investitures. Maybe Cultivationspren would be safer from Anti-Stormlight as well, since they're entirely comprised of a different Investiture? Likely yes. Also, it is notable that so far the only being killed with anti-light were Fused, pure Odium Honorspren, nearly pure Honor (created as counterpart to Cultivationspren) It is likely that e.g. Cryptics would also survive as Enlightened spren do, with their Honor-part being burned away, but Cultivation part remaining. Quote 36. PG 1,256: Ishar can move fast enough he creates a popping sound. This probably isn't quite BoM level speed as it doesn't create an actual sonic boom (which I assume Kaladin would have commented on), but it's probably within the realm of plausibility for Heralds should they want. If so. . . yeah, okay, I'm not sure if a Fullborn is the top dogs of non-Vessel Cosmere anymore. Heralds don't even need metal for their innate powers, they can just do it at will it seems. I mean, Taln in Azir moves fast enough that the sonic boom shatters windows. And Taln at full power was confirmed as unbeatable one on one (i.e. beyond Fullborn). 5
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