Mistborn Magic: The Gathering Set, Revisited

[Treamayne]

What if Metal Vial was a system like Amass? The ability makes the object if you don;t have it yet, but just adds counters if it exists. The abilities could spend those counters to fuel abilities?

[Elite01]

Hmm that would be interesting 

you could have a “mine shaft” land that amasses metal every turn… could be interesting but it would be similar to just using treasures and using a dice to keep track of them. 

If does have the cool flavor of “amass wealth” if that was the keyword 

for savants isn’t there a level up mechanic or something like new Frodo coats where it changes over time? Spook could easily do this or you could just have different cards for different parts of his life or even make it a double sided card. 
 

And random tangent it would be interesting to try and put each metal into a mana color, is pewter always green? Would tin be white? Would steel be white blue? 
Probably a topic for a different thread but it’s interesting 

[Sophrosyne He/any]

12 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

What if Metal Vial was a system like Amass? The ability makes the object if you don;t have it yet, but just adds counters if it exists. The abilities could spend those counters to fuel abilities?

I think I like this idea MORE with refinement it could work. Honestly X happens Amass is a good way to make mistings feel like their doing jobs.

 

14 minutes ago, Elite01 said:

And random tangent it would be interesting to try and put each metal into a mana color, is pewter always green? Would tin be white? Would steel be white blue? 
Probably a topic for a different thread but it’s interesting 

TBH Mistborn is going to be prone to mana brakes, right? I mean anyone, in theory, can be a coinshot.

A-gold and A-Copper U

A-Iron and Steel Red

A-Electrum White?

[Treamayne]

I've been thinking about this, and I think it is a mistake to try choosing archetypes or mechanics yet. When I worked on my block, to make a final first set of about 225 cards I "designed" (not all new cards, includes identifying possible reprints and functional reprints) about 400 cards.

I would guess that a good first step is to just identify possibilities, make 3-5 cards exploring those possibilties. Then you have something specific to look at, compare (maybe playtest) to gather data on what resonates, what works, what does not work, etc. 

[Atlas333]

Not much of a magic expert but I do think it would be cool to preserve the push and pull thematic of the magic via keywords.

On 1/4/2025 at 9:04 PM, Treamayne said:

• Steel - Flying
• Iron - Reach? (Pulling something down to your level)

Steel and iron are perfect examples if you ask me (not sure how feasible that will be with every metal though).

[Koloss17 She/They]

50 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

I've been thinking about this, and I think it is a mistake to try choosing archetypes or mechanics yet. When I worked on my block, to make a final first set of about 225 cards I "designed" (not all new cards, includes identifying possible reprints and functional reprints) about 400 cards.

I would guess that a good first step is to just identify possibilities, make 3-5 cards exploring those possibilties. Then you have something specific to look at, compare (maybe playtest) to gather data on what resonates, what works, what does not work, etc. 

yeah, I get that. I talked a bit with someone that was building a Stormlight set over at r/custommagic, and they only started thinking about the set aspect of things like 150 cards in, and while they did appreciate the whole “throw things at the wall and see what sticks” aspect of designing, they also wished they had solidified the archetypes earlier, as when they got around to thinking about the set aspect a whole, they had to scrap a lot of cards because they just didn’t fit the set.

So my current plan is to still do that “slap things together and mess around” style of building, but with a vague idea of a set beforehand. If while messing about, I feel that an archetype should be switched or changed, that is totally something that can be done. And like-I’m not creating rigid archetypes here, just making vague ideas of what *type* of thing goes where, and when actually building cards, I’m sure the themes and archetypes will solidify and shift.

[Koloss17 She/They]

Here's the very first batch of cards! I'll be honest, for most of em I found cool art that inspired me to make a card. Any/all feedback is welcome, whether that be a reworking of a card, a buff/nerf, or a rarity/mana cost shift. Anything is game!

Spoiler

Edit: added two more, but neither are anything special. I have also made further edits to a few cards, but all of them are minor.

Edited January 9, 2025 by Koloss17
Suggested edits, will edit when more feedback comes.

[Koloss17 She/They]

Three new cards! 

Spoiler

The set will be having DFCs, and while not all of them will involve lore counters, there will be a synergy there with sagas in UW, so stay on the lookout for those!

[Treamayne]

16 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

Three new cards! 

I should have time to review your last two posts this weekend (sorry i have not yet been able to do so). Meanwhile, here are a few samples i discussed above (very rough).

Spoiler

Like I said, rough examples of ideas for discussion. Amass template edited into an artifact token for charge counters (flake counters? metal counters?) and an Ability word version of Flare where spending those counters creates <effect>.

[Treamayne]

On 1/8/2025 at 9:13 PM, Koloss17 said:

Here's the very first batch of cards!

On 1/10/2025 at 3:36 PM, Koloss17 said:

Three new cards! 

Keep in mind, we have WoB Guidance on many Legendary colors.

Spoiler

 That's the thing in Magic, you have both personalities and power suites of characters influencing what colors they [are] and what they would play. 

• Hoid: You know I might do him like the Reaper King. Like two slash on all five. (But most most likely if he's gonna drop a color it's white.)
• Kelsier is blue/black. (he probably has some red to him in his rebellious nature)
• Vin is Red/green.
• Sazed is white/green--with arguments for mono-white.
• Elend is blue/white
• Ham is red/white..
• TLR is white/black.

Fair warning: Filters off - initial reactions only for discussion. Nobody is served by holding back.

Lestibournes, Rookie Tineye

Spoiler

• Not sure why Surveil is used in the set, when it (so far) does not seem to have much (if any) graveyard themes.
• Not sure why "Rookie" is in the title, when Spook is the most experienced Tineye on the crew (and he snapped younger than almost anyone except Vin).

Hammond, Fist of the Rebellion

Spoiler

• Template needs "additional counter" (See vampire socialite)
• In a set with Treasure, revolt seems like an unnecessary hoop
• "Fist of the Rebellion" does not seem to fit the reluctant General of TFE

Unruly Insurgents

Spoiler

• Countless Gears Renegade - but grows instead of feeding Revolt by making tokens.
• Maybe increase to 2/2, like its predecessor?

Coppercloud

Spoiler

• Modal Infiltrate with Surveil attached.
• Not sure how Surveil connects to Copper, but the modes certainly seem to fit - Veil of Secrecy did both for 1U

Clubs, Grizzled Protector

Spoiler

• Unsure why this is "protection from allomancers" instead of hexproof. Flavor kind-of fits, but only if th eplan is to make all Inquisitirs also have the Allomancer subtype.
• Is skulk being considered because the average P/T for the set wil be lower than other normal sets? Behind the Scenes puts this at 2C without a caveat, not sure if a 2/3 body and the protection ability make this woth the rarity bump plus MV bump.
• Maybe add a keyword?

Channel the Mists

Spoiler

• Two mana to, potentially, copy two allomancer abilties (but why only creatures if there will be tribal instants and sorceries)?
• This can be strong, depending on the rest of the set and what is available to be copied.

Breeze, Haughty Manipulator

Spoiler

• I'm not sure what the flavor of this is supposed to be? If he manipulates your own crew, he gets something? Why only sorcery?
• U, Tap two cretaures = 1 mana compares unfavorably with Springleaf Drum (1, 1 creature = 1 mana)
• As a soother, I would expect "cannot attack" and/or "cannot block" effects rather than Twiddle effects (though the tapping is similar for blocking, but sorcery only means no preventing attacks)

Bathe in Blood

Spoiler

• Abyssal Gorestalker, but without a 6/6 body. Tegrid's Shadow is 3BB and Instant for this effect (and only 2BB when foretold).
• This likely needs to be non-symmetrical, cheaper, or both.
• Card Name seems to evoke the Fountain scene - but that seems more like an enchantment (as something that lasts long than just "now") so maybe pivot this name to a more evocative card and use a narrower name here (Cull the Safe House?)

Backalley Cutpurse

Spoiler

• Cutpurse flavor feels very off. TFE really drove home that Skaa urchins never acted as cutpurses (and rarely as pickpockets - good way to draw ministry attention) so, the idea of a Skaa cutpurse just feels wrong to me.
  • Also, in a set already using Skulk, the absence here does not make sense (though that would probably warrant swapping P/T)
• The Explout mechanic also feels wrong fromo a Skaa perspecitve - if Exploit belongs in the set at all, the only flavor match I cna think of is Nobles Exploiting Skaa. Now, that feels very TFE.

Arrogant Coinshot

Spoiler

• Updated Barrage Ogre, but feels power-crept down rather than up. Sure, that's a tap ability and this is not - but compare to Siege Gang Commander which (back in Scourge) was already 1R, Sac: 2 Damage. I get common vs rare - so maybe I am mis-evaluating this because I don't draft.
  • Maybe if this was "2R, Sacrifice any number of artifacts: For each artifact sacrificed this way, Coinshot deals 2 damage to target creature. "
• Not sure why this needs a non-creature clause on the artifact. Closed set drafting won't yeild many (any) artifact creatures you would want to sac (inquisitors only IIRC) and no artifact creature tokens (or not massive numbers of them). In mixed draft/constructed this just becomes unplayable as-is.

Tear to Pieces

Spoiler

• Shock Dead (creature only, not sure why), and add. costs beyond a kicked Burst Lightning.
• In a set with treasure, this is possibly broken - especially at Common
  • Perhaps change to "If the additional cost was paid, <this> deals X+2 damage to that target instead, where X is the MV of the sacrificed artifact.
• Frankly, this spot would probably work better as a reprint of Galvanic Blast.

Studious Scheming

Spoiler

• I'm not sure what Clash brings to the set or what you are trying to portray with the mechanic.  If you are going to try to resurrect the mechanic, then you probably want to lean closer to Entangling Trap templates where you get an effect for the clash, and a better effect if you win - otherwise, it feels like a waste to run the effect if the only payoff is a win (which, Surveil may help, but not guarantee)
  • Alternately, making opponents clash each other could give you information about their decks, while giving you a payoff and not revealing your own top-of-deck
• Surveil seems very out of character for a card representing a Keeper. Why Surveil instead of Scry (tapping the memory and storing it back inthe library)?

Claimed by Ruin

Spoiler

• If this is meant to imply creating an Inquisitor, then why does the last chapter force you to sacrifice the "claimed" creature if you only have one when the saga finishes?
• As a Mythic, both destroying a target and only gaining counters feels underwhelming, especially for 3BB
  • Maybe consider a Dark Imposter Template. I: Exile Creature II: Gain all abilities of exiled creature (maybe with counters too) III: Each opponent sacrifices creature

Clever Instigator

Spoiler

• Three MV 1/3 goad on ETB isn't bad for a common.
• I'm guessing this is meant to imply Rioting, but there really isn't anything here to suggest that.
• Also, why a Noble would incite a riot makes no sense - not sure why this is not a Skaa Misting
• Clash feels superfluous here and overcosted (Captivating Glance clashes once per turn for no extra mana after casting, and is uncommon)
  • If the idea is "a fight caused the riot" then why would the creature Goad to attack somewhere other than where the clash happened.
• If you really want Clash - maybe tweak a new spin on the mechanic: Example:
  • When <this> enters goad target creature.
    1U: Two target opponents clash. When an opponent loses a clash, goad target creature that player controls.

Elend, Naive Ruler - Lady Valette, Newcomer

Spoiler

• Lore counters have specific rules and state based effects on CR 704
• Elend Naive Ruler, Resigned Conqueror
  • Since a large part of Elend's arc in WoA was that he did not have the treasure (and it was not there to be found), it feels awkward for him to generate treasue along side becoming the monarch
  • Similarly, the cimax of his Arc in TFE was stopping a revolt (preventing bloodshed), so giving the front side Revolt and the Rebel subtype seems wrong.
  • Four MV for a 2/4 without keywords seems overcosted - but more importantly, a pre-Lerasium Elend as a 2/4 (stronger than the Valette persona) also feels wrong.
  • Conqueror Elend want's to retain the Monarch, not just be able to win it back. The last ability may work better as a "curse" template - something like Curse of Chaos: "Whenever a player attacks the monarch, you and that player each <effect>" so that if Elend is the monarch, this ability helps dissuade attacks against him.
• Lady Valette, Vin
  • No idea why you would associate scry/fateseal with Valette (who couldn't uncover clues until right before she broke character) and more confused on how such actions would "help" her become Vin
  • Clash seems like an interesting mechanic for Vin, and It makes sense to pair  the front Scry/Fateseal mehanic  with this one. . . except, 3/3 flying first strike with Clash  for 5UUUU does not seem playable (much less rare/mythic) 
  • Moreover, since this is a persona Vin adopts, it feels very weird to be a transforming DFC that cannot change between both sides. Should probably be an MDFC or be able to transform between either side (like Elusive Tormenter//Insidious Mist). Possibly a MDFC with Transform, so either side can be hard cast, but she can still adopt either persona.

Just my first-pass thoughts.

 

[Koloss17 She/They]

13 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Keep in mind, we have WoB Guidance on many Legendary colors.

  Reveal hidden contents

 That's the thing in Magic, you have both personalities and power suites of characters influencing what colors they [are] and what they would play. 

• Hoid: You know I might do him like the Reaper King. Like two slash on all five. (But most most likely if he's gonna drop a color it's white.)
• Kelsier is blue/black. (he probably has some red to him in his rebellious nature)
• Vin is Red/green.
• Sazed is white/green--with arguments for mono-white.
• Elend is blue/white
• Ham is red/white..
• TLR is white/black.

Fair warning: Filters off - initial reactions only for discussion. Nobody is served by holding back.

Lestibournes, Rookie Tineye

  Reveal hidden contents

• Not sure why Surveil is used in the set, when it (so far) does not seem to have much (if any) graveyard themes.
• Not sure why "Rookie" is in the title, when Spook is the most experienced Tineye on the crew (and he snapped younger than almost anyone except Vin).

Hammond, Fist of the Rebellion

  Reveal hidden contents

• Template needs "additional counter" (See vampire socialite)
• In a set with Treasure, revolt seems like an unnecessary hoop
• "Fist of the Rebellion" does not seem to fit the reluctant General of TFE

Unruly Insurgents

  Reveal hidden contents

• Countless Gears Renegade - but grows instead of feeding Revolt by making tokens.
• Maybe increase to 2/2, like its predecessor?

Coppercloud

  Hide contents

• Modal Infiltrate with Surveil attached.
• Not sure how Surveil connects to Copper, but the modes certainly seem to fit - Veil of Secrecy did both for 1U

Clubs, Grizzled Protector

  Hide contents

• Unsure why this is "protection from allomancers" instead of hexproof. Flavor kind-of fits, but only if th eplan is to make all Inquisitirs also have the Allomancer subtype.
• Is skulk being considered because the average P/T for the set wil be lower than other normal sets? Behind the Scenes puts this at 2C without a caveat, not sure if a 2/3 body and the protection ability make this woth the rarity bump plus MV bump.
• Maybe add a keyword?

Channel the Mists

  Reveal hidden contents

• Two mana to, potentially, copy two allomancer abilties (but why only creatures if there will be tribal instants and sorceries)?
• This can be strong, depending on the rest of the set and what is available to be copied.

Breeze, Haughty Manipulator

  Hide contents

• I'm not sure what the flavor of this is supposed to be? If he manipulates your own crew, he gets something? Why only sorcery?
• U, Tap two cretaures = 1 mana compares unfavorably with Springleaf Drum (1, 1 creature = 1 mana)
• As a soother, I would expect "cannot attack" and/or "cannot block" effects rather than Twiddle effects (though the tapping is similar for blocking, but sorcery only means no preventing attacks)

Bathe in Blood

  Hide contents

• Abyssal Gorestalker, but without a 6/6 body. Tegrid's Shadow is 3BB and Instant for this effect (and only 2BB when foretold).
• This likely needs to be non-symmetrical, cheaper, or both.
• Card Name seems to evoke the Fountain scene - but that seems more like an enchantment (as something that lasts long than just "now") so maybe pivot this name to a more evocative card and use a narrower name here (Cull the Safe House?)

Backalley Cutpurse

  Hide contents

• Cutpurse flavor feels very off. TFE really drove home that Skaa urchins never acted as cutpurses (and rarely as pickpockets - good way to draw ministry attention) so, the idea of a Skaa cutpurse just feels wrong to me.
  • Also, in a set already using Skulk, the absence here does not make sense (though that would probably warrant swapping P/T)
• The Explout mechanic also feels wrong fromo a Skaa perspecitve - if Exploit belongs in the set at all, the only flavor match I cna think of is Nobles Exploiting Skaa. Now, that feels very TFE.

Arrogant Coinshot

  Hide contents

• Updated Barrage Ogre, but feels power-crept down rather than up. Sure, that's a tap ability and this is not - but compare to Siege Gang Commander which (back in Scourge) was already 1R, Sac: 2 Damage. I get common vs rare - so maybe I am mis-evaluating this because I don't draft.
  • Maybe if this was "2R, Sacrifice any number of artifacts: For each artifact sacrificed this way, Coinshot deals 2 damage to target creature. "
• Not sure why this needs a non-creature clause on the artifact. Closed set drafting won't yeild many (any) artifact creatures you would want to sac (inquisitors only IIRC) and no artifact creature tokens (or not massive numbers of them). In mixed draft/constructed this just becomes unplayable as-is.

Tear to Pieces

  Hide contents

• Shock Dead (creature only, not sure why), and add. costs beyond a kicked Burst Lightning.
• In a set with treasure, this is possibly broken - especially at Common
  • Perhaps change to "If the additional cost was paid, <this> deals X+2 damage to that target instead, where X is the MV of the sacrificed artifact.
• Frankly, this spot would probably work better as a reprint of Galvanic Blast.

Studious Scheming

  Hide contents

• I'm not sure what Clash brings to the set or what you are trying to portray with the mechanic.  If you are going to try to resurrect the mechanic, then you probably want to lean closer to Entangling Trap templates where you get an effect for the clash, and a better effect if you win - otherwise, it feels like a waste to run the effect if the only payoff is a win (which, Surveil may help, but not guarantee)
  • Alternately, making opponents clash each other could give you information about their decks, while giving you a payoff and not revealing your own top-of-deck
• Surveil seems very out of character for a card representing a Keeper. Why Surveil instead of Scry (tapping the memory and storing it back inthe library)?

Claimed by Ruin

  Hide contents

• If this is meant to imply creating an Inquisitor, then why does the last chapter force you to sacrifice the "claimed" creature if you only have one when the saga finishes?
• As a Mythic, both destroying a target and only gaining counters feels underwhelming, especially for 3BB
  • Maybe consider a Dark Imposter Template. I: Exile Creature II: Gain all abilities of exiled creature (maybe with counters too) III: Each opponent sacrifices creature

Clever Instigator

  Hide contents

• Three MV 1/3 goad on ETB isn't bad for a common.
• I'm guessing this is meant to imply Rioting, but there really isn't anything here to suggest that.
• Also, why a Noble would incite a riot makes no sense - not sure why this is not a Skaa Misting
• Clash feels superfluous here and overcosted (Captivating Glance clashes once per turn for no extra mana after casting, and is uncommon)
  • If the idea is "a fight caused the riot" then why would the creature Goad to attack somewhere other than where the clash happened.
• If you really want Clash - maybe tweak a new spin on the mechanic: Example:
  • When <this> enters goad target creature.
    1U: Two target opponents clash. When an opponent loses a clash, goad target creature that player controls.

Elend, Naive Ruler - Lady Valette, Newcomer

  Hide contents

• Lore counters have specific rules and state based effects on CR 704
• Elend Naive Ruler, Resigned Conqueror
  • Since a large part of Elend's arc in WoA was that he did not have the treasure (and it was not there to be found), it feels awkward for him to generate treasue along side becoming the monarch
  • Similarly, the cimax of his Arc in TFE was stopping a revolt (preventing bloodshed), so giving the front side Revolt and the Rebel subtype seems wrong.
  • Four MV for a 2/4 without keywords seems overcosted - but more importantly, a pre-Lerasium Elend as a 2/4 (stronger than the Valette persona) also feels wrong.
  • Conqueror Elend want's to retain the Monarch, not just be able to win it back. The last ability may work better as a "curse" template - something like Curse of Chaos: "Whenever a player attacks the monarch, you and that player each <effect>" so that if Elend is the monarch, this ability helps dissuade attacks against him.
• Lady Valette, Vin
  • No idea why you would associate scry/fateseal with Valette (who couldn't uncover clues until right before she broke character) and more confused on how such actions would "help" her become Vin
  • Clash seems like an interesting mechanic for Vin, and It makes sense to pair  the front Scry/Fateseal mehanic  with this one. . . except, 3/3 flying first strike with Clash  for 5UUUU does not seem playable (much less rare/mythic) 
  • Moreover, since this is a persona Vin adopts, it feels very weird to be a transforming DFC that cannot change between both sides. Should probably be an MDFC or be able to transform between either side (like Elusive Tormenter//Insidious Mist). Possibly a MDFC with Transform, so either side can be hard cast, but she can still adopt either persona.

Just my first-pass thoughts.

 

First of all-thanks for the feedback! These are all my first pass at cards, so any feedback is incredibly useful, and reworks are very doable. 

I'll list the cards that I based a some of the cards around:

-Unruly insurgents->Unruly mob

-Bathe in blood->barter in blood

-Arrogant coinshot->activated ability based around Pia and Kiran Nalaar. I believe the current iteration is now down to 2 mana.

-Tear to pieces->unholy heat

-Studious scheming->careful study+Taigam's scheming

As for larger set structure, here's the current working concept, which is of course still in flux:

WU:  Sagas+transform cards. Basically lore counter manipulation and shenanigans. As to the rules weirdness, see Myth Realized, a card that uses lore counters, yet is not a saga and whose counters have not been changed.

WB: Skaa, Steel Ministry, and exploit. Aristocrats, essentially. I think your point of cutpurses not really being a thing is fair, but there also seems to be mutual exploitation going on. Not a lot, but Camon, for example, is very exploitative, and I believe there are scuffles between thieving crews.

WR: Rebels and revolt. I thought the revolt mechanic was a cool keyword for the rebellion, and also synergizes with the WB archetype, which makes thematic sense.

WG: Currently slightly nebulous, but the current idea is tokens, with a merging of noble treasure tokens and skaa creature tokens. Flavor-wise, the current idea is the various battles, skirmishes, and rival parties of WoA.

UB: Surveil, library manipulation, and clash. Flavor-wise, it is meant to encapsulate the noble politics and deception of TFE and beyond, with a mess of lies and hidden information causing disputes and fights. Why clash? Well I'll be honest, I really wanted to make clash a playable mechanic, and the library manipulation of Dimir synergizes really nicely. The flavor of lorwyn clash was much more physical skirmishes, but this is more mental and social skirmishes (with a few physical skirmishes too). Why surveil? well it synergizes with the gy synergies of GB, and scrying has a very particular magical flavor to it. Why not both? I mostly think that would be confusing, but clash being also a scry mechanic tied to it could mess with that. I'm open to playing around with both of them, but I worry it would get confusing in a draft environment.

UR: Allomancers and activated abilities. We've decided to have allomancy being expressed through mana-based activated abilities, creating the through-line of mana pool and mana as the main resource being easily translatable into the metal reserves of allomancy. Plus, I like the flavor of being able to use treasures as fuel for allomancy, either through burning the treasure, or selling it for vials.

UG: Nobles and treasures. Mostly noble matters, as well as ammassing of wealth and using treasures as a currency. For example, I'll eventually make a card that gives someone a treasure or two to have their creature fight another creature. How that will change is still to be seen, but noble typal being mostly in UG is the current plan, with UB also having a lot of nobles.

BR: Artifacts and Hemalurgy. How will artifacts be used? uhhhhh that's still to be determined. Currently artifact sacrifice seems to be an idea, but I also worry about the homogenizing of artifact sacrifice in BR, creature sacrifice in WB, and things leaving mattering in WR. There will probably be an effort to diffrentiate those archetypes, but that's something we havent gotten to yet.

BG: Graveyard manipulation and the new excise mechanic. Name is still in flux, but its basically grave revolt, caring about a card leaving your graveyard. The main way this will be achieved is through exiling the card, but minor reanimation and EWit-style effects will be interspersed as well. The main flavor of this is the idea that in TFE, you die, your body gets looted, and your possessions are taken from you, with your very existence soon being erased and forgotten. This will mostly be through skaa scavenging and looting the scraps they can get (see how scavenge and loot are already magic keywords and can't be used for the new keyword), but there will also be kandra using a body for shapeshifting, nobles and the ministry covering up evidence of misdoings, and other small flavor bits. The big thing is that we want to have an archetype that deals with the graveyard while not being reanimator, as that really isn't something that is in the magic system.

RG: This *used* to be the transform matters archetype, before we combined sagas and some transform things in UW. There's a chance we'll have this still be transform matters, but it could also be the monarch archetype. We'll see where the set takes us, but right now neither transform nor monarch have a clear, solid home, and we shall see where that goes.

This is more a post explaining my reasoning for the larger strokes, and less for the specific feedback you gave, but I did read it and I agree with a lot of your points. Though I think a lot of it was about why certain mechanics were included, and so this will hopefully answer that. And yes, we're going with ten archetypes, but none of them are set in stone yet. I think right now we have close to 20 cards made, so starting from scratch with an archetype or pivoting directions is very doable and will likely inevitably happen. (I say we because I am working with someone else on this, they just don't use the Shard.)

[Treamayne]

I don't suppose you have a Nexus account? Seems this would be easier on a forum where [card][/card] tags functioned.

21 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

As to the rules weirdness, see Myth Realized, a card that uses lore counters, yet is not a saga and whose counters have not been changed.

But is also an enchantment using an activated ability to become a creature - not a creature using it to trigger Transform. I'm not saying it is not workable, but I am saying that it works better as the templates like NeoGawa Saga -> Creature DFCs. (a la Fall of Lord Konda). However, my primary point was that I don't understand what you are trying to represent with this mechanic. . . Why you chose to use it in this way?

21 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

Not a lot, but Camon, for example, is very exploitative, and I believe there are scuffles between thieving crews.

Exploitative? Yes. But when exploit is, mechanically, "sacrifice a creature"? I'm not sure that flavor fits. Not that it cannot work, but maybe a different mechanic or new keyword would fit better? My comments were just meant to be a dicsussion item.

21 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

UB: Surveil, library manipulation, and clash. Flavor-wise, it is meant to encapsulate the noble politics and deception of TFE and beyond, with a mess of lies and hidden information causing disputes and fights. Why clash? Well I'll be honest, I really wanted to make clash a playable mechanic, and the library manipulation of Dimir synergizes really nicely. The flavor of lorwyn clash was much more physical skirmishes, but this is more mental and social skirmishes (with a few physical skirmishes too). Why surveil? well it synergizes with the gy synergies of GB, and scrying has a very particular magical flavor to it. Why not both? I mostly think that would be confusing, but clash being also a scry mechanic tied to it could mess with that. I'm open to playing around with both of them, but I worry it would get confusing in a draft environment.

<snip>

BG: Graveyard manipulation and the new excise mechanic. Name is still in flux, but its basically grave revolt, caring about a card leaving your graveyard. The main way this will be achieved is through exiling the card, but minor reanimation and EWit-style effects will be interspersed as well. The main flavor of this is the idea that in TFE, you die, your body gets looted, and your possessions are taken from you, with your very existence soon being erased and forgotten. This will mostly be through skaa scavenging and looting the scraps they can get (see how scavenge and loot are already magic keywords and can't be used for the new keyword), but there will also be kandra using a body for shapeshifting, nobles and the ministry covering up evidence of misdoings, and other small flavor bits. The big thing is that we want to have an archetype that deals with the graveyard while not being reanimator, as that really isn't something that is in the magic system.

So, Surveil couldn't be seen to have any synergy because nothing GY oriented was in the test cards. Notably, "Loot" is not a keyword in Magic - it's a fan term for "discard a card, draw a card" (which, more recently is sometimes "draw a card then discard a card"). Scavenge is a usable keyword - and, like Kicker, it can be adjusted for variations on the mechanic. Right now, Scavenge's definition is restricted to GY (CR 702.97):

Quote

702.97a Scavenge is an activated ability that functions only while the card with scavenge is in a graveyard. “Scavenge [cost]” means “[Cost], Exile this card from your graveyard: Put a number of +1/+1 counters equal to the power of the card you exiled on target creature. Activate only as a sorcery.”

Which means if you manipulate to have Scavenge as a battlefield mechanic, you can open up the way it interacts in the game. But there are also other ways to work on those ideas. Concur that any given set should not have noth Scry and Surveil - but I think the discussion of which fits the flavor of TFE is worth considering. Scry and implications for Allomancy and Feruchemy, to me, fits the flavor far better than Surveil's mechanic (but that is just one opinion).

21 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

We've decided to have allomancy being expressed through mana-based activated abilities

If that has truly been decided, then this thread does not seem to relate that point. Last I thought was we were brainstorming ways to represent things so we can discuss the merits and flaws of the different options.

Maybe consider updating the first post with hard decisions that are final, so we know what to brainstorm, and what to brainstorm-around.

21 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

This is more a post explaining my reasoning for the larger strokes, and less for the specific feedback you gave, but I did read it and I agree with a lot of your points. Though I think a lot of it was about why certain mechanics were included, and so this will hopefully answer that.

It does, in part. I'll continue to create ideas when asked for, and review individual cards when requested and I'll stay out of the larger set picture unless requested otherwise.

Edited January 13, 2025 by Treamayne
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