What happened to Chana?

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

Chana mentions that she got killed once more after returning to Roshar following Shallan killing her. Any theories about happened? If it was Voidbringers, wouldn’t they have tried to capture her similarly to what they did with Jezrien? So did she just slip in the Urithiru showers or something?

[KaladinsSenseOfHumourSpren He/Him]

The wording might be important here. I can't remember if it said she died or she was killed. 

[Riino He/Him]

46 minutes ago, SprenOfKaladinSenseOfHumor said:

The wording might be important here. I can't remember if it said she died or she was killed. 

I just looked for it but couldn't find any conclusive evidence, though, seeing as both Taln and Ash died to normal Singers so the same could have happened

On 12/30/2024 at 8:35 PM, Toaster Retribution said:

Chana mentions that she got killed once more after returning to Roshar following Shallan killing her. Any theories about happened? If it was Voidbringers, wouldn’t they have tried to capture her similarly to what they did with Jezrien? So did she just slip in the Urithiru showers or something?

And here, if the Singers wanted to kill more Heralds properly, then they would have killed Taln and Ash with the Dagger instead of just a normal death. The main purpose of getting Moash to kill Jezrien with the Dagger was to craft Moash into a killing machine, and to also dishearten the other Heralds through the death of their leader. So most likely, Chana would have just been killed by singers or a natural death, but either way, it isn't related to Jeziren's annihilation. 

Also, a question here: When the Heralds give in to the torture in Braize, where on Roshar do they re-appear? Is it where they were last killed, or just spitballing here, do they reappear on Roshar at Odium's Pool underneath Narak, because after Taln broke, he came back somewhere from around the Shattered Plains, because he was found coming through the gates into the War Camps??

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, Solio_ said:

because after Taln broke, he came back somewhere from around the Shattered Plains, because he was found coming through the gates into the War Camps??

1. Taln never broke
2. He appeared outside Kholinar, not the Warcamps. His blade was stolen and replaced while Bordin travelled with him to the Warcamps from Kholinar.

Spoiler

Quote

Questioner

Taln. Did he actually ever give up? Or was it... Did he just get released when...?

Brandon Sanderson

You will find out, but Taln did not break. You'll find out how it happened, but Taln did not break.

JordanCon 2021 (July 16, 2021)

WoK Epilogue 

Quote

“Can you feel it?” Wit asked of the open night. “Something just changed. I believe that’s the sound the world makes when it pisses itself.”

Three guards stood just inside the thick wooden city gates of Kholinar. The men regarded Wit with worry.

<snip>

“Welcome, lost one,” Wit whispered.

“Who are you!” one of the guards called, nervous, as one of the other two ran to give the alert. A Shardbearer had come to Kholinar.

The figure ignored the question. He stepped forward, dragging his Shardblade, as if it weighed a great deal. It cut the rock behind him, leaving a tiny groove in the stone. The figure walked unsteadily, and nearly tripped. He steadied himself against the gate door, and a lock of hair moved from the side of his face, exposing his eyes. Dark brown eyes, like a man of the lower class. Those eyes were wild, dazed.

The man finally noticed the two guards, who stood, terrified, with spears leveled at him. He raised his empty hand toward them. “Go,” he said raggedly, speaking perfect Alethi, no hint of an accent. “Run! Raise the call! Give the warning!”

“Who are you?” one of the guards forced out. “What warning? Who attacks?”

The man paused. He raised a hand to his head, wavering. “Who am I? I… I am Talenel’Elin, Stonesinew, Herald of the Almighty. The Desolation has come. Oh, God… it has come. And I have failed.”

He slumped forward, hitting the rocky ground, Shardblade clattering down behind him.

WoR Interlude 7

Quote

“He just stares like that, Your Majesty.”

Words.

“He doesn’t seem to see anything. Sometimes he mumbles. Sometimes he shouts. But always, he just stares.”

The Gift and words. Not his. Never his. Now his.

“Storms, it’s haunting, isn’t it? I had to ride all this way with that, Your Majesty. Listening to him ranting in the back of the wagon half the time. Then feeling him stare at the back of my head the rest.”

“And Wit? You mentioned him.”

“Started on the trip with me, Your Majesty. But on the second day, he declared that he needed a rock.”

“A . . . rock.”

“Yes, Your Majesty.

 

 

1 hour ago, Solio_ said:

Also, a question here: When the Heralds give in to the torture in Braize, where on Roshar do they re-appear?

This is RAFO, because Brandon is reserving this information for books 6-10:

Spoiler

keleks_breath

1) In their place of torture, are the Heralds able to communicate with each other or with other people/spren outside of that place? E.g. how is Ishar able to maintain his threat of severing the Nahel bond if he is being tortured for hundreds of years? 2)When the Heralds return to Roshar, do they appear like Schwarzenegger in Terminator (nude) or do they appear with the clothing they wore when they signed up for the Oathpact? 3)Are the Honorblades involved in the torture of the Heralds? Again, thank you for taking the time to interact with us fans and readers.

Brandon Sanderson

I have to RAFO questions along the lines of what you're asking. These are things that are relevant to books 6-10, which probably won't even be written for a decade. Talking about them too much now would be counter-productive, I feel. Sorry.

/r/books AMA 2015 (June 24, 2015)

 

On 12/30/2024 at 5:35 AM, Toaster Retribution said:

Chana mentions that she got killed once more after returning to Roshar following Shallan killing her. Any theories about happened? If it was Voidbringers, wouldn’t they have tried to capture her similarly to what they did with Jezrien? So did she just slip in the Urithiru showers or something?

Chana Died - we don't know how, but it seems to have happened sometime before the events in RoW. 

WaT Day 8 Ch 99:

Spoiler

“They’ve found me,” Chana said.

“They?” Shallan asked, rising and stepping back, careful of what this erratic behavior might mean.

“The souls of the dead singers,” Chana said. “The Fused who have not Returned. I’m looking for Taln—I won’t break this time. I will find him.”

Souls of the dead …

“Mother?” Shallan said. “Where am I, right now?”

“Inside a vision,” Chana said, “in the Spiritual Realm. Reliving your wedding. I died again, a few months ago. I was on Braize, in the Cognitive Realm, but I felt you calling … pulling me to you…”

It was really her?

Chana stood up, suddenly alert. “Thank you for stopping me.” She met Shallan’s eyes. “Do not trust any of us, except for Taln.”

 

Hope that helps

 

 

[Riino He/Him]

5 hours ago, Treamayne said:

1. Taln never broke
2. He appeared outside Kholinar, not the Warcamps. His blade was stolen and replaced while Bordin travelled with him to the Warcamps from Kholinar.

 

Oof, sorry for misleading, I honestly didn't remember.

Thanks for the clarification and info.

[Riino He/Him]

21 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Taln never broke

So theorising here, why was Taln so mentally distressed when arriving back on Roshar, when that is completely separate from his usual appearance and behaviour? What distressed him so much and why would (likely some external force) bring him back to Roshar?

[Treamayne]

Please do not double post - it is against the forum policies. Please see the Sharder FAQ for info and tips on editing posts and using quotes and @ messages (e. g.  @Solio_) for calling attention to an edited post.

25 minutes ago, Solio_ said:

So theorising here, why was Taln so mentally distressed when arriving back on Roshar, when that is completely separate from his usual appearance and behaviour? What distressed him so much and why would (likely some external force) bring him back to Roshar?

Just to be clear (in case we were referencing two different meanings for "broke") when the WoB Says "Taln never broke" it means, specifically (OB Ch 38):

Spoiler

HONOR LET THE POWER BLIND HIM TO THE TRUTH—THAT WHILE SPREN AND GODS CANNOT BREAK THEIR OATHS, MEN CAN AND WILL. THE TEN HERALDS WERE SEALED UPON DAMNATION, TRAPPING THE VOIDBRINGERS THERE. HOWEVER, IF ANY ONE OF THE TEN AGREED TO BEND HIS OATH AND LET VOIDBRINGERS PAST, IT OPENED A FLOOD. THEY COULD ALL RETURN.

“And that started a Desolation,” Dalinar said.

THAT STARTED A DESOLATION, the Stormfather agreed.

An oath that could be bent, a pact that could be undermined. Dalinar could see what had happened. It seemed so obvious. “They were tortured, weren’t they?”

HORRIBLY, BY THE SPIRITS THEY TRAPPED. THEY COULD SHARE THE PAIN BECAUSE OF THEIR BOND—BUT EVENTUALLY, SOMEONE ALWAYS YIELDED.

ONCE ONE BROKE, ALL TEN HERALDS RETURNED TO ROSHAR. THEY FOUGHT. THEY LED MEN. THEIR OATHPACT DELAYED THE FUSED FROM RETURNING IMMEDIATELY, BUT EACH TIME AFTER A DESOLATION, THE HERALDS RETURNED TO DAMNATION TO SEAL THE ENEMY AGAIN. TO HIDE, FIGHT, AND FINALLY WITHSTAND TOGETHER.

So, what we discover in WaT is that Chana was Shallan's mother. Shallan killed her Mother - sending Chana to Braize. Chana Broke and allowed the return - which is why Taln returned to Roshar before the Everstorm was brought over at the end of WoR. 

Taln was still a being that had just withstood 4,500 years of torture on Braize (as the sole herald being tortured, until the last five years) - he is mentally and emotionally damaged because of that. What we do not know is if Ishar's folly with Odium's perpendicularity also contributed to Taln's mental illnesses the way that it affected all of the other Heralds.

PTSD does not begin to describe Taln's emotional and psychological damage - but he's still not the Herald that "Broke" and allowed the return.

Hope that helps

Edited April 23, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Riino He/Him]

27 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Please do not double post - it is against the forum policies. Please see the Sharder FAQ for info and tips on editing posts and using quotes and @ messages (e. g.  @Solio_) for calling attention to an edited post.

Just to be clear (in case we were referencing two different meanings for "broke") when the WoB Says "Taln never broke" it means, specifically (OB Ch 38):

  Hide contents

HONOR LET THE POWER BLIND HIM TO THE TRUTH—THAT WHILE SPREN AND GODS CANNOT BREAK THEIR OATHS, MEN CAN AND WILL. THE TEN HERALDS WERE SEALED UPON DAMNATION, TRAPPING THE VOIDBRINGERS THERE. HOWEVER, IF ANY ONE OF THE TEN AGREED TO BEND HIS OATH AND LET VOIDBRINGERS PAST, IT OPENED A FLOOD. THEY COULD ALL RETURN.

“And that started a Desolation,” Dalinar said.

THAT STARTED A DESOLATION, the Stormfather agreed.

An oath that could be bent, a pact that could be undermined. Dalinar could see what had happened. It seemed so obvious. “They were tortured, weren’t they?”

HORRIBLY, BY THE SPIRITS THEY TRAPPED. THEY COULD SHARE THE PAIN BECAUSE OF THEIR BOND—BUT EVENTUALLY, SOMEONE ALWAYS YIELDED.

ONCE ONE BROKE, ALL TEN HERALDS RETURNED TO ROSHAR. THEY FOUGHT. THEY LED MEN. THEIR OATHPACT DELAYED THE FUSED FROM RETURNING IMMEDIATELY, BUT EACH TIME AFTER A DESOLATION, THE HERALDS RETURNED TO DAMNATION TO SEAL THE ENEMY AGAIN. TO HIDE, FIGHT, AND FINALLY WITHSTAND TOGETHER.

So, what we discover in WaT is that Chana was Shallan's mother. Shallan killed her Mother - sending Chana to Braize. Chana Broke and allowed the return - which is why Taln returned to Roshar before the Everstorm was brought over at the end of WoR. 

Taln was still a being that had just withstood 4,500 years of torture on Braize (as the sole herald being tortured, until the last five years) - he is mentally and emotionally damaged because of that. What we do not know is if Ishar's folly with Odium's perpendicularity also contributed to Taln's mental illnesses the way that it affected all of the other Heralds.

PTSD does not begin to describe Taln's emotional and psychological damage - but he's still not the Herald that "Broke" and allowed the return.

Hope that helps

Ah sorry about the double posting, I didn't realise. Yes, thank you for drawing the dots together, this is very informative. Thanks alot.