Splintering of Ambition vs. Devotion/Dominion

[Ashspren]

During Chapter 104, Tanavast mentions that Odium’s power has been ripped and fragmented after his fight with Ambition. It’s later noted that a rift in the Spiritual Realm is created as a result. However, these effects aren’t observed after he splinters Devotion and Dominion. 

Was there a significant difference in the method used to perform the splintering? Or did this just have to do with the Intent of the different Shards and their desire to fight back? Also, could trapping the Shard remnants in the Cognitive Realm have mitigated any propagating effects?

[alder24]

12 minutes ago, Ashspren said:

During Chapter 104, Tanavast mentions that Odium’s power has been ripped and fragmented after his fight with Ambition. It’s later noted that a rift in the Spiritual Realm is created as a result. However, these effects aren’t observed after he splinters Devotion and Dominion. 

Was there a significant difference in the method used to perform the splintering? Or did this just have to do with the Intent of the different Shards and their desire to fight back? Also, could trapping the Shard remnants in the Cognitive Realm have mitigated any propagating effects?

Odium managed to turn Devotion and Dominion against each other, made them fight and then he finished them off when they were the weakest. However, when dealing with Ambition, from Arcanum Unbounded we know they fight directly. something that Tanavast tried to avoid as much as possible because it was so destructive. Nohadon later said that the destruction resulting from the clash of Shards can be reduced or entirely avoided if one of the Shard cares about protecting people - Devotion sounds like a Shard that might have wanted to preserve Sel. WaT ch 113:

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“BOTH SHE AND SKAI ARE DEAD, TANAVAST,” KOR WHISPERED. “HE DREW THEM INTO CONFLICT WITH ONE ANOTHER, THEN FINISHED THEM OFF WHEN THEY WERE WEAK.”

WaT ch 142:

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“Is there no way to fight him?” Dalinar said. “Without destroying all of Roshar?”
“I don’t think there is,” Nohadon said. “Powers like yours have clashed before without destructive results—but always then, one of the two wanted to preserve. When both want to destroy … it’s violent.”

 

[Ashspren]

On 12/27/2024 at 8:06 AM, alder24 said:

Odium managed to turn Devotion and Dominion against each other, made them fight and then he finished them off when they were the weakest. However, when dealing with Ambition, from Arcanum Unbounded we know they fight directly. something that Tanavast tried to avoid as much as possible because it was so destructive. Nohadon later said that the destruction resulting from the clash of Shards can be reduced or entirely avoided if one of the Shard cares about protecting people - Devotion sounds like a Shard that might have wanted to preserve Sel. WaT ch 113:

WaT ch 142:

 

Gotcha, missed that part. Thank you so much!

[VirtuousTraveller]

On 12/26/2024 at 1:42 PM, Ashspren said:

During Chapter 104, Tanavast mentions that Odium’s power has been ripped and fragmented after his fight with Ambition.

Was the power being ripped a “damage” that translated to Taravangian when he took up Odium?  We see Rayse struggling to control the power, and what may be allusions to this damage he endured while fighting Ambition, but Taravangian didn’t seem to experience anything related to this yet.

[Treamayne]

4 hours ago, VirtuousTraveller said:

Was the power being ripped a “damage” that translated to Taravangian when he took up Odium?  We see Rayse struggling to control the power, and what may be allusions to this damage he endured while fighting Ambition, but Taravangian didn’t seem to experience anything related to this yet.

Yes. The power of Odium was damaged at least once by their fight with Ambition (and Mercy was involved in some unknown way). Arcanum Unbounded Essay:

Spoiler

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THE Threnodite system is a site warped by an ancient conflict. Long ago, soon after the Shattering, Odium clashed with (and mortally wounded) the Shard Ambition here. Ambition would later be Splintered, though that final act took place in a different location.

<snip>

Fortunately I have personal access to someone from Threnody, the third planet in the system. Judging by the records that Nazh has provided, I have concluded that some measure of Investiture must have existed on this planet before the battle between Shards. However, the waves of destruction—carrying ripped-off chunks of Ambition’s power—twisted both the people and the planet of Threnody.

 

RoW Ch 27 Epigraph:

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"That said, the most worrying thing I discovered in this was the wound upon the Spiritual Realm where Ambition, Mercy, and Odium clashed—and Ambition was destroyed. The effects on the planet Threnody have been … disturbing."

WoB:

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Questioner

I had a question about Odium's intent for going after Ambition. Obviously, with Devotion and Dominion teaming up, he didn't want a twosome over there. Are we ever gonna learn more about the background on Threnody? 'Cause Khriss implies that there was always Investiture there, before the clash. So I'm looking for a little bit of information about the Evil before the Admiral's background story.

Brandon Sanderson

Before the clash, the Evil was not the Evil. It is the clash that warped it. And Secret Project Five has a splintered piece of Ambition as a plot point. Some of these books... All that stuff I said about not having to know multiple magic systems? That goes out the window for things like Secret Project Five. Those are books that are about that. You will find out some more there; it's gonna take me a long time to get to what actually happened with Ambition, why, and things like that. Know that Odium was not expecting it to be as hard as it was and ended up severely wounded in that clash.

C2E2 2024 (April 26, 2024)

It's been hypothesised that the "Evil" on the home continent is an Avatar of those chunks of Ambition and Odium left behind (like an Evil Sibling made of whatever Intent woul result when Odium and Ambition combine. . .)

Hope that helps

[alder24]

17 hours ago, VirtuousTraveller said:

Was the power being ripped a “damage” that translated to Taravangian when he took up Odium?  We see Rayse struggling to control the power, and what may be allusions to this damage he endured while fighting Ambition, but Taravangian didn’t seem to experience anything related to this yet.

Seems like some of this damage was focused on the Vessel rather than the power, but the power was still wounded in previous clashes. RoW ch 114:

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He became the power. With it, he began to understand the cosmere on a fundamental level. He saw that his predecessor had been sliding toward oblivion for a long, long time. Weakened by his battles in the past, then deeply wounded by Honor, this being had been enslaved by the power. Failing to claim Dalinar, then losing the tower and Stormblessed, had left the being frail. Vulnerable.
But the power was anything but frail. It was the power of life and death, of creation and destruction. The power of gods. In his specific case, the power of emotion, passion, and—most deeply—the power of raw, untamed fury. Of hatred unbound.

WaT I-4:

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He saw something different from what she wanted him to see. He saw that gods could indeed be afraid. Of him. The power of Odium, with his predecessor, had killed several of them. That version of him had been too brazen, and had left itself wounded in a clash. Taravangian could certainly do better.