Baon's incredible power (THEORY)

[That_Dustbringer]

I worked it out and Baon should theoretically be able to control 2,880 ribbons at the same time. His power is about 120 times more powerful Drile's.  The reason he doesn't, is because he would instantly be super dehydrated, however, with purified Dor, he would theoretically be able to control them without shriveling up. 

Edited December 13, 2024 by That_Dustbringer

[DoctaDajman]

27 minutes ago, That_Dustbringer said:

I worked it out and Baon should theoretically be able to control 2,880 ribbons at the same time. His power is about 120 times more powerful Drile's.  The reason he doesn't, is because he would instantly be super dehydrated, however, with purified Dor, he would theoretically be able to control them without shriveling up. 

Homie needs some spikes and start compounding that bendalloy!  

[Trusk'our he/him]

43 minutes ago, That_Dustbringer said:

I worked it out and Baon should theoretically be able to control 2,880 ribbons at the same time. His power is about 120 times more powerful Drile's.  The reason he doesn't, is because he would instantly be super dehydrated, however, with purified Dor, he would theoretically be able to control them without shriveling up. 

This is a bit of an assumption, but I think Sand Mastery gets more efficient the more powerful you are.

Like Allomancy, you trade a kind of physical matter for Investiture from the SR. Allomancy lets you grab more Investiture for the same amount of metal, so Sand Mastery would presumably work under similar principles. 

[Lord Ruler Sylphrena He/Him]

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

This is a bit of an assumption, but I think Sand Mastery gets more efficient the more powerful you are.

Like Allomancy, you trade a kind of physical matter for Investiture from the SR. Allomancy lets you grab more Investiture for the same amount of metal, so Sand Mastery would presumably work under similar principles. 

I'm not sure that's how it works. I think extra efficiency comes knowing how to do more with less and having better control over your Ribbons. It is possible that you get more efficient but I think the high level Sand Masters would would have been able to handle the effects KaDo better if they had meaningfully higher efficiency. 

Edited December 13, 2024 by Lord Ruler Sylphrena
Typo

[Treamayne]

3 hours ago, That_Dustbringer said:

I worked it out and Baon should theoretically be able to control 2,880 ribbons at the same time. His power is about 120 times more powerful Drile's.  The reason he doesn't, is because he would instantly be super dehydrated, however, with purified Dor, he would theoretically be able to control them without shriveling up. 

I'd be interested to know what sources of data and computation you used for that. Keep in mind that Drile did not start at controlling 25 ribbons, he used overmastery to get that high, and overmastering to increase the bond is a diminishing returns process (Strongest results the first time, Equal or lesser results the secdon time, lesser reults the third time, negligible results thereafter - based on the in-story progression seen since we have no other data). 

3 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

This is a bit of an assumption, but I think Sand Mastery gets more efficient the more powerful you are.

Like Allomancy, you trade a kind of physical matter for Investiture from the SR. Allomancy lets you grab more Investiture for the same amount of metal, so Sand Mastery would presumably work under similar principles. 

Sand Mastery, the investiture is in the PR (much like BioChromatic Breath) and the Luhel Bond allows you to release the stored Investiture in the lichen on the sand and use that to control the grains. Increased Bond allows a greater mental capacity for multi-tasking with a slight increase in maximum power available. (Kenton could, after his first overmastery do three smaller tasks with his three ribbons, or one large task when all three ribbons coordinated - but it did not appear to be 1 ribbon = 33.3% of available power - there was some loss experienced due to divided attention - which he remarks upon after his second Overmastery when he got to five ribbons and could feel the effects on himself when trying to controll all five at separate tasks simultaneously. 

Hope that helps

[Trusk'our he/him]

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

Sand Mastery, the investiture is in the PR (much like BioChromatic Breath) and the Luhel Bond allows you to release the stored Investiture in the lichen on the sand and use that to control the grains. 

I thought Khriss stated in the Arcanum Unbounded that Sand Mastery draws small amounts of Investiture from the SR in exchange for water?

Coppermind: 

Spoiler

Water plays an important role in utilizing the Investiture in white sand. Water causes a chain reaction of sudden growth, energy, and Realmic transition in the microorganisms, and sand masters are able to use water to forge a brief Cognitive bond.^[10] This allows them to draw small amounts of Investiture directly from the Spiritual Realm that is used to control the sand.

Plus, it's kind of weird that the sand can keep going as long as the Master has enough water, but immediately empties of Investiture once they release it.

I think there must be some Investiture in the PR to initiate the process, but water is traded for Investiture from the SR as long as the Master maintains their control. Once the Master stops, the bond with the microorganisms in the sand breaks and they become exhausted and fall dormant until they absorb more Investiture. 

[That_Dustbringer]

Quote

I'd be interested to know what sources of data and computation you used for that. Keep in mind that Drile did not start at controlling 25 ribbons, he used overmastery to get that high, and overmastering to increase the bond is a diminishing returns process (Strongest results the first time, Equal or lesser results the secdon time, lesser reults the third time, negligible results thereafter - based on the in-story progression seen since we have no other data). 

I didn't go super in-depth, but we took basic measurements of both Drile's and Baon's bursts of power. We compared the sizes with surrounding items, like the boat, or even Drile's arm. We found how much larger Baon's burst was and multiplied by 24, which was how many ribbons Drile could control. (I used the term "bursts" for lack of better word)

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

I thought Khriss stated in the Arcanum Unbounded that Sand Mastery draws small amounts of Investiture from the SR in exchange for water?

Coppermind: 

  Hide contents

Water plays an important role in utilizing the Investiture in white sand. Water causes a chain reaction of sudden growth, energy, and Realmic transition in the microorganisms, and sand masters are able to use water to forge a brief Cognitive bond.^[10] This allows them to draw small amounts of Investiture directly from the Spiritual Realm that is used to control the sand.

Plus, it's kind of weird that the sand can keep going as long as the Master has enough water, but immediately empties of Investiture once they release it.

I think there must be some Investiture in the PR to initiate the process, but water is traded for Investiture from the SR as long as the Master maintains their control. Once the Master stops, the bond with the microorganisms in the sand breaks and they become exhausted and fall dormant until they absorb more Investiture. 

I had forgotten that reference from the AU essay, Thank you. It should be tempered with (WoB):

Spoiler

swieczq

Would someone with enough knowledge be able to use Autonomy’s Investiture if Taldain’s star was seen from his world?

Brandon Sanderson

So I’m on a world and I see Taldain’s star, what you're asking if someone could use the Investiture? Oh, OK I see. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. That’s good! You stumped me. I haven’t gotten that question before. I would say yes, if the light particles are reaching you. I mean technically you could use the light from one of those stars to power a solar sail so…

Kraków signing (March 21, 2017)

AisDa's light, in the physical realm carries Autonomy's investiture and can invest the Lichen. That's why White Sand gives off the Opalescense of Investiture when touching water - even without a Bond. So, maybe "small amounts" aid in the control (based on the essay), but the bulk of Investiture accessed with the Luhel Bond is already stored in the Lichen (by observed events in the Story). Also, once the Sand is invested - it becomes masterable (regardless of Source).

Spoiler

Quote

Take the color of the glow of sand mastery. Manuscripts and carvings show sand ribbons glowing yellow or orange, attempts by artists to show something undepictable with paint alone. Indeed, observed in pure daylight, sand mastery does appear a yellowish white, but a closer examination shows that it shimmers like mother of pearl, iridescent colors shifting and sliding across the mastered sand. This effect is much more prominent in darkness, something of a rarity here on Dayside. Since sand mastery rarely happens in darkness, not many have recorded observing this effect.

White Sand Omnibus Ch 11:

Spoiler

 

Quote

Questioner (paraphrased)

Can a Highstorm recharge sand from Taldain, and would that sand be charged with Stormlight or would it be masterable?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It would recharge the sand, and it would be masterable, not Stormlight

American Fork High School Signing (Dec. 12, 2019)

 

 

47 minutes ago, That_Dustbringer said:

I didn't go super in-depth, but we took basic measurements of both Drile's and Baon's bursts of power. We compared the sizes with surrounding items, like the boat, or even Drile's arm. We found how much larger Baon's burst was and multiplied by 24, which was how many ribbons Drile could control. (I used the term "bursts" for lack of better word)

So, an artists' approximation - that may also be influenced by other factors - such as

• Baon being on a boat - at sea, near the Terminal Storm.
• Baon holding more sand for the test
  • Or, possibly, because he was right next the Barrel the test sample had been drawn from, he may have accidentally drawn from the whole thing. 

I would concur that Baon is a strong Sand Master, but I would disagree with your calculation results because too many assumptions are unknown. Sorry.

Hope that helps.

Edited December 13, 2024 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Trusk'our he/him]

7 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

I hd forgotten that reference from the AU essay, Thank you. It should be tempered with (WoB):

  Hide contents

swieczq

Would someone with enough knowledge be able to use Autonomy’s Investiture if Taldain’s star was seen from his world?

Brandon Sanderson

So I’m on a world and I see Taldain’s star, what you're asking if someone could use the Investiture? Oh, OK I see. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. That’s good! You stumped me. I haven’t gotten that question before. I would say yes, if the light particles are reaching you. I mean technically you could use the light from one of those stars to power a solar sail so…

Kraków signing (March 21, 2017)

AisDa's light, in the physical realm carries Autonomy's investiture and can invest the Lichen. That why White Sand gives off the Opalescense of Investiture when touching water - even without a Bond. So, maybe "small amounts" aid in the control (based on the essay), but the bulk of Investiture accessed with the Luhel Bond is already stored in the Lichen (by observed events in the Story). Also, once the Sand is invested - it becomes masterable (regardless of Source).

I can agree with that.

It might be a little like Awakening, where most of the Investiture (present in the sand's microorganisms) isn't used up by the Master, but has an effect nonetheless. An extra, kinetic input of Investiture comes from the SR as the Master forges a Luhel bond. The Investiture inside the microorganisms is depleted by the end, though given how Sand Masters can vary greatly in how long they use their power and how it seems to always cause the same level of depletion, it makes me think the PR Investiture isn't used in maintaining the bond, but may be an initial anchor of some kind, maybe a kickstarter for the bond.

[Treamayne]

4 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

The Investiture inside the microorganisms is depleted by the end, though given how Sand Masters can vary greatly in how long they use their power and how it seems to always cause the same level of depletion, it makes me think the PR Investiture isn't used in maintaining the bond, but may be an initial anchor of some kind, maybe a kickstarter for the bond.

Or, the other way around - the SR investiture is what maintains the Bond, while the PR investiture conducts the work being directed by the bond. 

[That_Dustbringer]

Quote

So, an artists' approximation - that may also be influenced by other factors - such as

 

Baon being on a boat - at sea, near the Terminal Storm.

Baon holding more sand for the test

Or, possibly, because he was right next the Barrel the test sample had been drawn from, he may have accidentally drawn from the whole thing. 

I would concur that Baon is a strong Sand Master, but I would disagree with your calculation results because too many assumptions are unknown. Sorry.

 

Hope that helps.

It's all good, thanks for clearing it up! I can always use some feedback. So, again, thanks