Possible Shard Combos

[Elder]

Thanks to Wind and Truth, we now know the domains of all 16 Shards. 4 of them have combined into two new shards:

Ruin + Preservation = Harmony, a fairly laissez faire god with difficulty controlling his conflicted power. (though Discord may yet manifest).

Odium + Honor = Retribution, who, based on Taravangian’s rant to cultivation, thoughts he expressed after the powers combined, and some of how Warlight is managed, I think is going to be an exceptionally strict god.  We’ll see how well these shards align.

Granted, the vessel may have some say as to what these Shards combine into… looking at you Sazed….

but, there’s a ton of possible combinations out there.  Anyone have ideas for some good ones?

[Markolius]

Hard to predict how these combinations would be called, but I think that Reason combined with some of "angry" Shard (Ruin, Odium, or maybe Dominion) should soften the primal Intent; for example, combining Reason with Odium will give us something less destructive, but it works only if Reason is the dominant Intent in the pair.

More interesting to me is the circumstances of combining two Shards matter to getting their new aspect. 

If Odium took Honor not after his last Vessel broke oaths, would it still form Retribution? Or if Sazed took one of his Shards earlier than the other, would he still become Harmony?

[Elder]

6 hours ago, Markolius said:

Hard to predict how these combinations would be called, but I think that Reason combined with some of "angry" Shard (Ruin, Odium, or maybe Dominion) should soften the primal Intent; for example, combining Reason with Odium will give us something less destructive, but it works only if Reason is the dominant Intent in the pair.

More interesting to me is the circumstances of combining two Shards matter to getting their new aspect. 

If Odium took Honor not after his last Vessel broke oaths, would it still form Retribution? Or if Sazed took one of his Shards earlier than the other, would he still become Harmony?

Reason could indeed be a tempering aspect, but part of me would want one more positive shard to balance it further.  Give Reason the power to choose between Odium and Mercy for instance.  I’d probably call that one Judgement.

To a certain extent, I agree with you, the combinations we got were not necessarily what they had to be. The circumstances definitely helped make Retribution what it is, though I do think that this is also the interpretation of the two shards combined that aligns their powers the best. They can act in concert toward this goal. It still makes  for a very controlling and dictatorial god, though that’s quite possibly an influence from the vessel.

That said, I think in Harmony’s case it was less the circumstances and far more the vessel who has defined the combination. I think Scadrial is highly fortunate to have an extremely knowledgeable religious scholar with many perspectives on what a god should and shouldn’t be.  Of course, then we also get into Discord looming, which is relevant but also quite the rabbit hole.

It’s also worth noting that both of the combined shards that we know at this time are exceptionally young. They may redefine themselves as they get older. Part of me thinks that’s what we saw from Rayse on Ashyn: a vessel trying to redefine his new(ish) Shard, deceiving definitely the people but perhaps also himself as to what it actually is. Sazed could give in to the instability of his powers and become Discord. Time, events, and quite possibly the development of Honor’s own personality may redefine Retribution into something else.

Which leads me to the Dor.  We already have a combination of Dominion and Devotion there.  It’s been left alone a lot longer than Honor, so it probably has its own ideas, or is very much shaped by the people who live in the regions that define its power.  It’s hard for me to decide what Dominion+Devotion=. Tanavast thought the best aspects of Adonalsium were in Devotion… Leadership?  I’m kinda glad we’re getting that book soon.

I’ll propose one further combination: Cultivation, seeing a need for more power, reclaims the broken shard of Ambition, creating Ascension.  She starts cultivating champions with a strong desire to prove themselves, become the absolute best, but also who work to cultivate those below themselves.

Edited December 13, 2024 by Elder

[tebwolf359]

Quote

Reason could indeed be a tempering aspect, but part of me would want one more positive shard to balance it further.  Give Reason the power to choose between Odium and Mercy for instance.  I’d probably call that one Judgement.

I always hesitate calling *any* shard positive, especially after what we've seen.  

All shards seem to me to be fundamentally broken and negative on their own, just in orders of degrees.   

To be clear, Odium seems the worst, and Ruin the most destructive, but in this book alone we have good indications that Cultivation and Honor are both harmful as well.

The Shattering seems to be the biggest mistake in the universe, and I look foward to seeing why the 17 thought it was a good idea...

[Dreamwa1ker she/her]

On 12/13/2024 at 6:08 AM, Elder said:

Which leads me to the Dor.  We already have a combination of Dominion and Devotion there.  It’s been left alone a lot longer than Honor, so it probably has its own ideas, or is very much shaped by the people who live in the regions that define its power.  It’s hard for me to decide what Dominion+Devotion=. Tanavast thought the best aspects of Adonalsium were in Devotion… Leadership?  I’m kinda glad we’re getting that book soon.

Devotion + Dominion makes me think of like, Paternalism. That's not what the shard would be called I'm sure, but I could see it being kind of the other side of the same coin of Taravangian and Retribution - a Shard that thinks they know what is best for you and so freedom is restricted. Like a somewhat benevolent monarchy, but of course that still has its own issues.

Or could be something like Zeal or Crusade - thinking that zealots would be extremely devoted/worshipful and trying to spread/convert (dominion side). Could also get scary.

I agree that I think all the Shards have to have some kinda negative aspects, that's kind of the point the series seems to have been making. They lack the context and nuance the other aspects would add. 

Edited December 17, 2024 by Dreamwa1ker

[Sophrosyne he/him]

1 hour ago, tebwolf359 said:

I always hesitate calling *any* shard positive, especially after what we've seen.  

100% agree. if Devotion is love after a fashion, what is it when you have no Reason, or will to change... I'll tell you what it is,
 

Spoiler

My ex
XD

 

What would the Dor's Intent be? 

Options 1: "Jealousy" or "Vigilance" 
Devotion is stronger than Dominion
Conditional love and the advancement of those within its sphere of influence results in a Shard that seeks to empower and nurture those Connected to it.

Options 2: "Subjugation" or "Sovereignty" 
Dominion is stronger than Devotion
Shard is driven to impose it’s love on others results in a Shard that seeks forcibly rule over, and protect. 

Options 3: "Benevolence" or "Providence" 
Equal parts Dominion and Devotion
Wishes to guide and watch those in its vicinity. 
This combination is akin to a parent or sibling protecting and guiding while still allowing individuals to make their own choices and mistakes.

 

[eriwancoselyn]

the ones that I'd most like to be ruled by:

Devotion + Endowment. Seems like they'd be very happy to hand out power. 

Honor + Cultivation. (I'm assuming the sibling is a usable metric for what a shard of the power would look like)

Invention + Dominion. It's mentioned that invention travels all over, making different projects and then leaving. I'd like to see what would happen if they were tied to a specific location.

 

the ones that probably can't function:

Odium + Ambition. We've probably already seen this in the form of the Evil on Threnody. (idk if mercy is mixed into the soup there too)

Reason + Whimsy. This might actually create another harmony situation with the opposing intents.

Devotion + Odium. I can't decide if a united Passion shard would be a good or bad thing. I suspect bad, the shard would probably have a kid's sense of reasoning, lashing out randomly.

Virtuosity + Ambition: Would probably try to create a birds of paradise type world where everything is based on your ability to be beautiful.

 

It seems like any of the shards in combination with ruin would eventually end the world. Here are some of the most fun ideas for it.

Ruin + Devotion. I have no idea what this would look like, but it would probably be fun to read about.

Ruin + Ambition. The world probably just instantly vaporizes. 

Ruin + Reason. Sadism?

[Onironte he/him]

I'm not seeing Autonomy around here... So, if you ask me, I think some combos could be:

Powerful combos:

• Autonomy + Ambition: Wild, Ascension?, Power? These Shards' Intents sound near each other, so I can easily imagine them together, in a Shard-Against-Cosmere war, taking power of other Shards but without being tied to it.
• Cultivation + Reason: Take the manipulative power of Cultivation, plus the cold logic of Reason and you can foresee the future as no other can. Manipulation?
• Cultivation + Odium: Weird, I know, because Odium is practically the opposite of Reason, but it is at the same time more bonded to the living (irrational) beings. Influence?
• Invention + Endowment: Design (suggests both the purpose of invention and the act of bestowing), giving freely magical technology, a world of engineers of wonders.
• Preservation + Mercy: Consequenceless? A Shard that is, basically, an overprotective father.
• Cultivation + Ruin: Cthaeh
• Preservation + Reason: Stillness. Don't ask why, I just think it's cool.
• Cultivation + Ruin: Evolution. Killing the weak to grow stronger. Improvement through destruction.

Stupid combos:

• Whimsy + Endowment: Lottery, a god that just randomly gives away power, without thinking too much. Fatal, potentially, but fun.
• Autonomy + Honor: wanting solitude, but finding yourself tied to everyone, and, strangely, enjoying it. Covenant?
• Mercy + Ruin: Self-Control. "I want to destroy everything. But only if it doesn't damage anyone, that would be a pity"
• Preservation + Valor: Paralyzing; "I feel courageous to make things the same. I'm prepared to do nothing at all. But to prevent you from doing anything at all"
• Odium + Reason: Passion + Logic. Human, living contradiction, but somehow in harmony.

[TheoreticalMagic]

I think if Harmony turns into Discord in Era 3, and in a bid for power goes up against Autonomy again and this time ends up walking away with at least a Splinter of her power added to his own, or absorbs one of her Avatars, I think that actually could end up being a very good thing, and the Harmony/Discord + (some of) Autonomy Super Shard could be Balance....the Intent of Self-Regulation of Opposing Natures. The individual's ability to compensate for being torn between two extremes at different times by exercising their autonomous will to course correct their behavior rather than be ruled by their own conflicted nature.

In fact, it might be a VERY Kelsier style plot twist for him to be working throughout Era Three in shady seeming ways that suggest he's exploiting Sazed not being in his right mind to goad him into going after Autonomy....with other people familiar with both characters disappointed in Kelsier seeming to be willing to even weaponize his own friend just to take out another enemy.....only for it to turn out that Kelsier (in his own mind, and his own uniquely Kelsier ways) was only instigating this conflict because he's HOPING that absorbing some of Autonomy's Intent will help Sazed regain control over himself. In a way that Discord might shy away from if he knew Kelsier's real hope, considering an Intent like Discord might find his own internal conflict and strife appealing and not WANT it to go away.

Cut to Sazed-as-Balance beaming at Kelsier: This is why I believe in you.

Kelsier looking at everyone else: See? God believes in me, why can't you jerks ever believe in me too?

Everyone who's ever met Kelsier, looking at everything else he's ever done: Gee. Can't imagine why we ever have doubts about how far you'll go. Also what the actual hell do you mean nobody else ever believes in you, you literally have your own religion.

[Shatter He/Him]

Maybe we should call the Harmony/Discord/Autonomy shard Equilibrium

[Ashbringer he/him]

Eh, I'm bored, I'm a fan of Mercy, let's see how it goes.

Mercy is compassion to the ones beneath you and a personal involvement, but as it's missing the other Shards like Reason and Devotion and Endowment, it becomes a bit different. She also "worries" Harmony, is somewhat pointedly not reached out to by Tanavast, and I have a sneaking suspicion she had a greater involvement in Ambition's demise than Odium suggests. Coup de grace, anyone...

Anyway, spoilered for size.

Spoiler

• Ambition + Mercy: Sacrifice, of others or yourself. If you know me, you know I like Lamentation for this one  but more realistically, that'd have Odium in it somewhere. One of the bad combos, Ambition and Mercy likely have different priorities.
• Autonomy + Mercy: Emancipation.
• Cultivation + Mercy: Fellowship.
• Devotion + Mercy: Compassion. Relatively straightforward, the two Shards likely balance each other out pretty well. Could also be something like Restoration.
• Dominion + Mercy: Sanctuary, or something like Guardian(ship).
• Endowment + Mercy: Restoration.
• Honor + Mercy: Trust. That one feels like I'm missing something, but I like that one.
• Invention + Mercy: Opportunity. Works in my head.
• Mercy + Mercy: Mercy^2
• Odium + Mercy: Vengeance. Is a synonym of Retribution cheating? But a more emotional and personal spin on it. Lamentation could return here as well.
• Preservation + Mercy: Peace. Keeps violence at bay. Probably a better combo, depending how well Preservation plays with non-Ruin Shards.
• Reason + Mercy: Determination.
• Ruin + Mercy: Passage. ("Death" seems a bit on the nose... but yeah, like Death. An end to all suffering.)
• Valor + Mercy: Perseverance, or something similar like Endurance. Depends how violent Valor is.
• Virtuosity + Mercy: Reverence. Not a big fan of this, seems more like Virtuosity + Endowment, but all three involved Shards are a bit wild-card-y here.
• Whimsy + Mercy: Joy.

 

[Entr0pic He/him]

My fav shard would be reason, and let’s assume it’s intent is something along the lines of “i must do the most logical thing”. let me think of some names:

reason/ruin= culling, maybe? Like clearing out those who deserve it?

Reason/ambition= resolution? Like being ambitious, but to a controlled extent

reason/whimsy= restraint? Like controlling your whimsy with reason?

reason/valor= tactics? Like the ability to assess a battlefield

reason/invention= direction? Like channeling invention’s creativity to help others or themselves? If someone can think of a better name, id appreciate it

reason/preservation= maintenance? Like preservation, just less overbearing.

Reason/odium= empathy? Being able to logically process the emotions of odium?

reason/cultivation= manipulation? Got this one from @Onironte earlier in the thread, so thx man

reason/honor= compromise?

reason/virtuosity= appreciation?

reason/autonomy= survival?

reason/dominion= stewardship?

reason/mercy= exemption? Like purposefully allowing others to live despite it being illogical? I know this one is iffy.

Reason/endowment= usefulness?

reason/devotion= care? Like devotion, To a lesser extent.

 

[The Splinter of Ambition He/Him]

I think a combination of Ruin and Odium would best be called "Malice", and would probably be the most terrifying Shard to ever menace the Cosmere. I'm imagining some pretty awesome gigantic beasts like thunderclasts but enhanced with hemalurgy...

[Qianweilian He/him]

No, Mercy/Ruin could be more terrifying. Depending of the vessel, I could see it ending up as something like "Apocalypse". Kill everyone so they don't have to suffer more. Basically Kaladin at his worst moment in RoW applying this mentality to everyone regardless if they want to or not.

[The Splinter of Ambition He/Him]

On 3/6/2025 at 7:13 AM, Qianweilian said:

No, Mercy/Ruin could be more terrifying. Depending of the vessel, I could see it ending up as something like "Apocalypse". Kill everyone so they don't have to suffer more. Basically Kaladin at his worst moment in RoW applying this mentality to everyone regardless if they want to or not.

Mercy will definitely be the Shard I will be watching most for later in the cosmere, despite people talking about Valor and Reason I still remember Harmony saying Mercy "worries" him.

[Dreamwa1ker she/her]

On 3/6/2025 at 7:13 AM, Qianweilian said:

No, Mercy/Ruin could be more terrifying. Depending of the vessel, I could see it ending up as something like "Apocalypse". Kill everyone so they don't have to suffer more. Basically Kaladin at his worst moment in RoW applying this mentality to everyone regardless if they want to or not.

Mercy + Ruin = Thanos, haha. Or maybe Mercy + Reason is, a eugenics like situation where Reason divorced from ethics takes you quickly to a very bad place.

But more seriously Mercy + Ruin sounds like it would be Nihilism, or Annihilation you could say. Terrifying indeed.

[Shatter He/Him]

From the Coppermind.

Quote

The remnants of Devotion and Dominion, both residing in the Cognitive Realm, comprise the Dor. They, however, are not unified within a singular Vessel as of the Night of Sorrows.

From the Arcanum

Quote

Questioner

Is there a metal form of the Dor?

Brandon Sanderson

There is a metal form of the Dor.

Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

There is A metal form of THE DOR. They are combinedish.

[Mattel]

13 hours ago, The Shattered Cosmere said:

From the Coppermind.

From the Arcanum

There is A metal form of THE DOR. They are combinedish.

Shard of Belligerence.