The Shards Have Only Themselves To Blame

[StanLemon]

I'm sure a few like Endowment will self righteously blame Hoid for this new threat, but ultimately they only have themselves to blame. They could have worked together to get rid of Odium and the threat it represented. But at the end of the day they chose to turn a blind eye to it, content to believe that Odium would stay contained. 

[BinarySecond]

Yes that is the conclusion I believe the book leads us to. Dalinar forced the issue so that can could no longer be kicked down the road.

It's no longer somebody else's problem. It's everyones problem.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

7 hours ago, StanLemon said:

I'm sure a few like Endowment will self righteously blame Hoid for this new threat, but ultimately they only have themselves to blame. They could have worked together to get rid of Odium and the threat it represented. But at the end of the day they chose to turn a blind eye to it, content to believe that Odium would stay contained. 

Is that true though? Did they look away? I find it suspicious that the weapon that killed the vessel of Odium was made on Nalthis and found its way into the hands of Cultivation just as the Everstorm developed.

Now you certainly say that they acted selfishly by letting Honor and Cultivation pay the cost of containment. But that is not the same thing as doing nothing.

[StanLemon]

Perhaps, but at the same the argument could simply be said that the plan for Nightblood to be on Roshar was just to have Odium's vessel change hands. It seemed a lot of this book was trying to show that the plans to deal with Odium ultimately backfired. 

[RedBlue]

3 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Is that true though? Did they look away? I find it suspicious that the weapon that killed the vessel of Odium was made on Nalthis and found its way into the hands of Cultivation just as the Everstorm developed.

Just to be clear, you’re implying that Endowment arranged for Nightblood to come to Roshar with the intention of it being used to kill Rayse?

I find that unlikely. Endowment speaks very pointedly about non-intervention in her letters to Wit. Unless she’s straight-up lying, she’s against the idea of assassinating another system’s Shard on principle.

Also, killing Rayse didn’t solve the Odium problem, and if Endowment predicted the whole chain of events, she would have been able to predict that too.

[DiePie]

2 minutes ago, RedBlue said:

I find that unlikely. Endowment speaks very pointedly about non-intervention in her letters to Wit. Unless she’s straight-up lying, she’s against the idea of assassinating another system’s Shard on principle.

She may be referring to direct intervention? Fighting directly is off-limits, but creating a tool that just so happens to be at the right place, at the right time, to kill Rayse? Now that's fine, as as any Highspren are concerned.

 

4 minutes ago, RedBlue said:

Also, killing Rayse didn’t solve the Odium problem, and if Endowment predicted the whole chain of events, she would have been able to predict that too.

Good point, as far as we know only Cultivation foresaw the whole chain of events. So... what if Cultivation commissioned a weapon from Endowment for this purpose. I have no clue what Endowment would ask for from such a bargain. She may not even ask for anything at all, enowdowing a shard with such a weapon would satisfy the power to no end, I think. But theorizing about Cultivation's debts sounds more fun.

[StanLemon]

16 minutes ago, DiePie said:

Good point, as far as we know only Cultivation foresaw the whole chain of events. So... what if Cultivation commissioned a weapon from Endowment for this purpose. I have no clue what Endowment would ask for from such a bargain. She may not even ask for anything at all, enowdowing a shard with such a weapon would satisfy the power to no end, I think. But theorizing about Cultivation's debts sounds more fun.

Point, we don't know that Cultivation predicted the whole chain of events. If anything, the book was trying to show that her plan didn't happen the way she wanted it to

[DiePie]

1 minute ago, StanLemon said:

Point, we don't know that Cultivation predicted the whole chain of events. If anything, the book was trying to show that her plan didn't happen the way she wanted it to

My apologies, misinterpreted what you said (thought you were referring to the chain of events that led up to Taravodium). Yeah, she didn't get much further than Cultivating suitable candidates for the two other shards of Roshar. Really shaped by the intent of her shard there.

[RedBlue]

Yes, I meant the chain of events leading to Taravangian Ascending to Odium.

I agree that Retribution was a turn of events that none of them saw coming.

[StanLemon]

9 minutes ago, DiePie said:

My apologies, misinterpreted what you said (thought you were referring to the chain of events that led up to Taravodium). Yeah, she didn't get much further than Cultivating suitable candidates for the two other shards of Roshar. Really shaped by the intent of her shard there.

Ah, I misunderstood as well.

[Aeshdan he/him]

On 12/10/2024 at 11:47 AM, StanLemon said:

I'm sure a few like Endowment will self righteously blame Hoid for this new threat, but ultimately they only have themselves to blame. They could have worked together to get rid of Odium and the threat it represented. But at the end of the day they chose to turn a blind eye to it, content to believe that Odium would stay contained. 

Actually... could they have? Sure, if a couple of Shards got together they could have destroyed Rayse, but then what? You can't destroy the power of a Shard, and even Splintering it seems to have all manner of side effects.

Honestly, I think you could make a very good case that as long as Honor's challenge kept Rayse trapped in the Rosharan system and mostly unable to damage even that, it was better for everyone (including the Rosharans) to leave things as they were. If (say) Valor had teamed up with Honor to destroy Odium, then the conflict between them would have first probably done horrendous damage to Roshar, and then left a bunch of unguided power running rampant. So who exactly would have benefited from such an action?