"We Killed You"

[KnightoftheCosmere]

In Oathbringer 119, when Dalinar is saying the Third Ideal and opens Honor's Perpendicularity Odium thinks:

Quote

No! No we killed you. WE KILLED YOU.

Who is the "we" mentioned here? As shown in Wind and Truth, Honor's power fled Tanavast after he betrayed BAM, and then Odium killed Tanavast. It really doesn't make sense for more people to be involved, because all Odium does is kill the physical body of Tanavast, he doesn't even Splinter Honor.

[TheOneKEA]

I think both Rayse and Odium recognized the echoes of Tanavast's Cognitive Shadow in the explosion of Honor's Investiture across all three Realms, and was afraid that they didn't actually kill him. We now know that the Stormfather contained Tanavast's memories and a portion of his self, and because of Dalinar's Connection to the Stormfather, both the Vessel and the Shard likely felt Tanavast's presence when the perpendicularity was opened. Rayse and Tanavast would have had their own Connection as a result of their dealings after the Shattering and that Connection may have been triggered when the perpendicularity was formed.

[Moirne she/her]

Or, Dalinar shouting about unity amid a rush of tremendous power scared Rayse into thinking Adonalsium had reformed - “we killed you” may reference the Shattering.

[coolsnow7]

Just now, Moirne said:

Or, Dalinar shouting about unity amid a rush of tremendous power scared Rayse into thinking Adonalsium had reformed - “we killed you” may reference the Shattering.

This was always the other interpretation. I think WaT lends some support to this theory.

Alternatively, Cultivation did play a role in his death, but was so subtle about it that he never found out. Certainly it was clear that their intents were opposed, and her intent was opposed to how things were going on Roshar.

That said, we got so much wrong leading up to WaT that I don’t even want to bother trying to figure this out until we have Book 9 in hand. As it is, we’ll be waiting a decade before we even start getting answers to any of the questions we have after this book. 

[Shuffel]

On 12/9/2024 at 10:04 PM, coolsnow7 said:

This was always the other interpretation. I think WaT lends some support to this theory.

Alternatively, Cultivation did play a role in his death, but was so subtle about it that he never found out. Certainly it was clear that their intents were opposed, and her intent was opposed to how things were going on Roshar.

That said, we got so much wrong leading up to WaT that I don’t even want to bother trying to figure this out until we have Book 9 in hand. As it is, we’ll be waiting a decade before we even start getting answers to any of the questions we have after this book. 

I think Cultivation played a role in Honor's death and setup him up to break his oath. Cultivation wanted off the planet and away from her Ex.

[Subvisual Haze]

This was after Dalinar heard Nohadon's voice.  Nohadon

Adonalsium, the one they collectively killed.

[coolsnow7]

On 12/11/2024 at 12:37 PM, Shuffel said:

I think Cultivation played a role in Honor's death and setup him up to break his oath. Cultivation wanted off the planet and away from her Ex.

I tend to agree with you that she contributed to his death behind the scenes. The details (like whether she wanted to get off the planet) are squarely in “I’m not gonna get an answer for a freaking decade so I’m not even gonna bother thinking about it” for me.

[PrestigiousOwl]

I definitely think one of two things here.

Either a) Its just the "royal We" being used by Odium, or generously referring to Rayse & the power of Odium as a plural self. 

or b) in that moment, Dalinar tapped into something beyond Honor, as others have mentioned. Odium had a vision in that moment of not Honor but Adonalsium, and thats who was killed by a group that he was part of