Shallan and her mother's death... What REALLY happened?

[+robardin he/him]

So, something has always felt a little off about what Shallan recalls about killing her mother.

She's a matroska level unreliable narrator (that's one of those "Russian nesting dolls") when it comes to her own past, but it's all we've got to go on as readers, and yet... Explain how this at all plausibly hangs together to me?

Fact: She bonded a Cryptic as a child -- that's Testament. This is 100% true.

Fact: She killed her mother with a Testamentblade; her mumbleth truth to Pattern was admitting she'd killed her mother, with burned out eyes.

Suspect: ...and the "Blade" was then "put away in a safe" by her father. What?

90% Fact: Her father was arguing with her mother and another man, an associate of her mother's, about Shallan being "one of THEM" ; her father fought with the man after he pulled a knife, while her mother came at her with the knife after it got dropped in the struggle; her father killed the man, while Shallan killed her mother; and then, her father covered up both deaths by claiming he'd found the two of them having an affair and killing them in jealousy, which apparently was A-OK for a lighteyes of his rank to do in Jah Keved without any further investigation.

We know her brothers, who were not present for the conflict, have told the same basic cover story. "Our father killed our mother and her lover in a jealous rage, Shallan was there when it happened and got traumatized."

But we DON'T really know that that's exactly went down In The Room Where It Happened. And there are elements to this that don't pass the smell test.

I'm going to gloss over the question of how did Lin Davar explain his wife having the burned-out eyes characteristic of Death By Shardblade without having such a weapon himself; I think that was answered somewhere, and I just don't remember? (Can someone remind me, or is that Problem #0?)

Problem #1: Lin Davar's behavior regarding his ten year old daughter summoning a Shardblade. As we see later in her life, her father was super keen on "rising in the ranks", and supposedly got access a Soulcaster (from the Ghostbloods) in order to literally generate wealth.

Jah Keved as as whole had about twenty Shardblades in the entire kingdom, the second most on Roshar to Alethkar, and they would all be accounted for, not to mention the fact that all dead Blades are of the "giant sword" variety that cannot change shape the way a living one can. Having a Shardblade in his "strongbox", especially of a unknown (and much more concealable) size, should have been of GREAT INTEREST AND VALUE to him.

Hand-wavy explanation: I suppose it's possible that he went to check on it later and found it missing, and realized that was because Shallan was still bonded to it (in presumably the normal gemstone way); then when he was unable to get her to summon and then to "unbond" it so he could use it, and in fact acted like it never happened, gave up and just acted like it never existed as long as Shallan did likewise?

But also never dared to abuse her the way he did her brothers and the rest of the household, not only out of some special love for her but because, you know, a Shardblade stabby-stab is an insta-kill and she's done it before and then reset, so tip-toe around the Dangerous Girl?

That really doesn't hold water to me, but let's move on to...

Problem #2: Shallan's mother and her friend knowing about Nahel bonds, and attacking Shallan for forming one. If Shallan's mother and/or her "male friend visitor" were Skybreakers working with Nale to kill nascent Surgebinders of other orders, how did they expect to do that on their own? Because if you know about Surgebinders, you definitely know that they can heal with Stormlight, and will even unconsciously do so in self-preservation, as Kaladin did before even being aware of his Surges.

It took Nale using a Shardblade to kill Ym, to prepare to execute Lift before Yanagawn pardoned her, and then to use on the Stump. Even though none of them were past the Second Ideal yet, probably not past the First.

Yet, this man, and then Shallan's mother, brought the proverbial knife to a Shardfight? Like, a regular one? And expected to kill a Surgebinder with it? No way, right?

And it can't be that the man was himself a Skybreaker of the 3+ Ideal who had summoned a Shardknife, one that kept its form while Shallan's mother picked it up to use. Because ordinary Lin Davar is not overpowering and then killing a Radiant of the Third Ideal unless that Radiant is faking it.

[Shadow of Electrum he/him]

2 hours ago, robardin said:

Problem #1: Lin Davar's behavior regarding his ten year old daughter summoning a Shardblade.

I'm not entirely sure his behavior was contradictory. Yes he was concerned with rising up in the ranks, but he despised that shardblade probably as much as Shallan did. He watched that blade kill his wife and traumatize his daughter, after that I would have been surprised if he just turned around and used it for personal gain. Kaladin had the same reaction. Even if it didn't have that much emotional significance to Lin, we know how much he tries to protect Shallan afterwards. In that situation I could see him ignoring the shardblade, even if it wasn't still bonded to her, for Shallan's sake more than anything. After all, his first reaction was to lock it in a box and hide it away forever. Sure, he likely would have hidden it either way, but I imagine it would have been handled differently if he planned to use it later.

2 hours ago, robardin said:

Problem #2: Shallan's mother and her friend knowing about Nahel bonds, and attacking Shallan for forming one.

I might be forgetting something, but I'm not entirely sure Shallan's mother was involved with the Skybreakers. That would explain why she was able to tell that Shallan had a bond, but as you pointed out, that causes a whole myriad of problems. I think Shallan's mother simply wanted to kill her because at this point, radiants are still the enemy of the vorin church. There are ways she could have learned basic knowledge of the radiants, as groups like the Sons of Honor and the Invisagers prove that knowledge was still available outside of the Skybreakers. Even without this, there was general mythology of the surges and the way they used storm light, and she could have simply put two and two together. With this in mind, she saw from her perspective that her daughter was committing something extremely forbidden and decided to take action, not fully understanding what she was going up against. That does leave a bit of a hole as to who her accomplice is supposed to be, but I think it's safe to assume he's not a Skybreaker for the same reasons. I don't think Nale would have authorized a mission like this if the supposed radiant wasn't more prepared, so I think he might be someone who expressed concern over Shallan's powers and potentially convinced her mother to kill her.

2 hours ago, robardin said:

how did Lin Davar explain his wife having the burned-out eyes characteristic of Death By Shardblade without having such a weapon himself

I don't think it was ever fully explained how Lin covered everything up, but we do know that there are ways to cover up a shardblade death. The main way we hear of is from that assassin Jhasnah hires in the flashback before Gavilar's death. She mentions that she cuts out the eyes of her victims as a symbolic gesture as well as to hide the fact that she uses a shardblade. This aside, we know that Lin went through a lot of effort to obscure the death of his wife. I don't know what the "official" statement was on her death, but we know that the idea of Lin killing his wife in a jealous rage was a rumor that he started to cover the actual truth, like Dalinar did at the rift. The whole line of interactions with the bounty hunter was based on the fact that no one truly knew how lady Davar died, and it was "rumored" that Lin killed her, and so the bounty hunter came to investigate. That would explain why he invited the Davar children to speak up about what transpired that night. So I would say it's less that he explained away her shard death, and more that no one really knew how she died in the first place.

I hope these explanations make sense. I've spent a lot of time trying to figure out Shallan's whole deal with her past and whatnot, and these are the conclusions I've come to. It's likely someone more versed in the cosmere will come along and correct me but this is the best I've been able to put together. I hope you found this helpful!

[Raven Wilder]

Does Lin Davar's death happen before or after the Alethi/Parshendi banquet? 'Cause Rhythm of War indicates that Nale didn't start going after other Radiants until after talking to Venli at the feast, so the attempt on Shallan's life wouldn't have come from the Skybreakers if it happened before then.

[alder24]

23 hours ago, robardin said:

I'm going to gloss over the question of how did Lin Davar explain his wife having the burned-out eyes characteristic of Death By Shardblade without having such a weapon himself; I think that was answered somewhere, and I just don't remember? (Can someone remind me, or is that Problem #0?)

Why would you even show your kids the body of their mother killed in rage? That would never happen, he would cover her and hide her body, possibly burn her to hide the truth. Nobody would ever know about burned-out eyes at all, nobody would see her body. It's also possible that he just gouged out her eyes to hide it, just like assassin Liss was doing to hide her Shardblade. 

23 hours ago, robardin said:

Problem #1: Lin Davar's behavior regarding his ten year old daughter summoning a Shardblade. As we see later in her life, her father was super keen on "rising in the ranks", and supposedly got access a Soulcaster (from the Ghostbloods) in order to literally generate wealth.

Jah Keved as as whole had about twenty Shardblades in the entire kingdom, the second most on Roshar to Alethkar, and they would all be accounted for, not to mention the fact that all dead Blades are of the "giant sword" variety that cannot change shape the way a living one can. Having a Shardblade in his "strongbox", especially of a unknown (and much more concealable) size, should have been of GREAT INTEREST AND VALUE to him.

Your wife just tried to kill your beloved daughter and she had to be killed by Shallan in self-defence, an act that will forever scar the mind of your child, but all you can think of is how rich you can become with this Shardblade? Some people can choose love over wealth, some people can reject a Shardblade because of the blood that's on it (Kaladin) - Lin doing the same for the sake of his beloved daughter isn't that far-fetched. He loved her, even if he wasn't the best father, especially to his other kids, but he still loved her and was clearly overprotective of her. 

He probably tried to take Shallan's Shardblade away from her at some point but it didn't work - he did it not because he wanted it, rather he wanted to separate Shallan from the weapon she used to kill her mother and trauma it could bring. I may be giving him too much credit, but I think that's what was on his mind back then, not money and status. Killing his wife already made him a political outcast, imagine what would have happened if he proclaimed to have a Shardblade that nobody knew before.

Or he was aware of what it means to be a Radiant and what Testament really was - a spren.

23 hours ago, robardin said:

Problem #2: Shallan's mother and her friend knowing about Nahel bonds, and attacking Shallan for forming one. If Shallan's mother and/or her "male friend visitor" were Skybreakers working with Nale to kill nascent Surgebinders of other orders, how did they expect to do that on their own? Because if you know about Surgebinders, you definitely know that they can heal with Stormlight, and will even unconsciously do so in self-preservation, as Kaladin did before even being aware of his Surges.

Keep the blade in her body until Shallan runs out of Stormlight? Just like Moash killed Elhokar. Skybreakers usually hunted freshly manifested Radiants who still didn't know anything about their powers, with no Ideals sworn and definitely no Shardblades - they would have assumed Shallan is no different than the others and she doesn't have a Shardblade yet - if they were working with Nale and all of that. Shardblade is not needed to kill a Radiant, it just makes it easier. OB ch 84:

Quote

Lowering his spear, Moash ran Elhokar through the chest.
Kaladin screamed.
Moash pinned the king to the ground, shoving aside the weeping child prince with his foot. He placed his boot against Elhokar’s throat, holding him down, then pulled the spear out and stabbed Elhokar through the eye as well.
He held the weapon in place, carefully waiting until the fledgling glow around the king faded and flickered out. The king’s Shardblade appeared from mist and clanged to the ground beside him.

 

23 hours ago, robardin said:

And it can't be that the man was himself a Skybreaker of the 3+ Ideal who had summoned a Shardknife, one that kept its form while Shallan's mother picked it up to use. Because ordinary Lin Davar is not overpowering and then killing a Radiant of the Third Ideal unless that Radiant is faking it.

That man was a Skybreaker acylyte, which is a rank below squires, someone who has not sworn any Oaths yet but is a candidate for becoming a squire. He had no powers.

 

 

20 hours ago, Shadow of Electrum said:

I might be forgetting something, but I'm not entirely sure Shallan's mother was involved with the Skybreakers.

She had a romance with a Skybreaker acylyte. OB ch 40:

Quote

Your mother had intimate contact with a Skybreaker acolyte, and you know the result of that relationship

 

 

9 hours ago, Raven Wilder said:

Does Lin Davar's death happen before or after the Alethi/Parshendi banquet? 'Cause Rhythm of War indicates that Nale didn't start going after other Radiants until after talking to Venli at the feast, so the attempt on Shallan's life wouldn't have come from the Skybreakers if it happened before then.

Around the same time, in the same year at least. Both the prologue and Shallan's flashbacks of that day are said to happen 6 years before WoR. But Nale was hunting Radiants for decades by this point. OB ch 40:

Quote

You should know that the Heralds are no longer to be seen as allies to man. Those that are not completely insane have been broken. Nale himself is ruthless, without pity or mercy. He has spent the last two decades—perhaps much longer—dealing with anyone close to bonding a spren.