Kelsier's Atium Shattering

[scientificmotif]

It's been a while, but as I remember, Allomancy destroys atium geodes. What exactly does this entail?

Specifically, why do atium geodes shatter when Allomancy is used near them, and why does the geodes shattering make the metal inside disappear?

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, scientificmotif said:

It's been a while, but as I remember, Allomancy destroys atium geodes. What exactly does this entail?

Specifically, why do atium geodes shatter when Allomancy is used near them, and why does the geodes shattering make the metal inside disappear?

The reason why Allomancy destroys Atium crystals is because Preservation and Ruin are opposites. The power of Preservation is breaking the Crystals through which the power of Ruin is collecting. If there is a Geode present, this would not remove the Geode or Atium bead it contains - but it does prevent the crystals from forming new geodes and beads. Kelsier was finding the holes because the Crystals, as a focus for the power of Ruin becoming Physical are also impregnated with Metal - and all that it implies. 

I know there are more WoBs - but this is the only one I found right now. I'll update as I find the others. 

Spoiler

 

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Brandon Sanderson

Also note that while Mare was an Allomancer, she wasn't what one would call a "dangerous" Allomancer. She was a Tineye, which isn't one of the top tier martial powers. She couldn't have used atium, and even if she HAD somehow found [tin], she'd simply have been able to hear and see better. Which would have made her better at finding the atium.

The Allomancers to keep out of the Pits would have been Lurchers or Coinshots (who could have destroyed the crystals), and to a lesser extent Thugs (who could be difficult to control.) Mistborn, of course, needed to be kept far, far away, lest they get their hands on atium.

There's more going on here, of course. If I ever write the Kelsier short story that talks about him discovering the Eleventh Metal, I will get into why the Inquisitors weren't given Mare as they wanted. The Lord Ruler specifically chose to send her to the Pits rather than handing her over to the Inquisitors. (Note: She wouldn't have ended up on a hook. Inquisitors had other...uses for skaa Mistings they captured. See book three.)

TWG Posts (Jan. 22, 2008)

 

Hope that helps

[scientificmotif]

But doesn't that mean that there's a bunch of Atium lying ar

6 hours ago, Treamayne said:

The reason why Allomancy destroys Atium crystals is because Preservation and Ruin are opposites. The power of Preservation is breaking the Crystals through which the power of Ruin is collecting. If there is a Geode present, this would not remove the Geode or Atium bead it contains - but it does prevent the crystals from forming new geodes and beads. Kelsier was finding the holes because the Crystals, as a focus for the power of Ruin becoming Physical are also impregnated with Metal - and all that it implies. 

I know there are more WoBs - but this is the only one I found right now. I'll update as I find the others. 

  Hide contents

 

 

Hope that helps

Then why did they make a big deal out of him destroying the crystals, as if it prevented Atium mining altogether?

[Trusk'our he/him]

1 hour ago, scientificmotif said:

But doesn't that mean that there's a bunch of Atium lying ar

Then why did they make a big deal out of him destroying the crystals, as if it prevented Atium mining altogether?

Because it while it is temporary, it takes about 300 years for the geodes to reform and produce Atium again after being destroyed. 

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/83-shadows-of-self-edinburgh-uk-signing/#e2911

BlackYeti

In The Final Empire, Kelsier says that it will take 300 years before atium grows back in the Pits of Hathsin. How does he know this?

Brandon Sanderson

I think it is mentioned somewhere else how long it takes a crystal to regrow, and he's just basing it off of, in the past, when a crystal is damaged, how long it takes one to come back... I'm pretty sure that that is even mentioned somewhere, but if not, that's just how he knows.

Plus, I don't know how likely it is that Atium pre-formed would still be there. Prisoners trying to collect it would pull it out of the geodes for survival, so very little (if any) would be left behind after the crystals broke. 

[scientificmotif]

23 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Because it while it is temporary, it takes about 300 years for the geodes to reform and produce Atium again after being destroyed. 

Plus, I don't know how likely it is that Atium pre-formed would still be there. Prisoners trying to collect it would pull it out of the geodes for survival, so very little (if any) would be left behind after the crystals broke. 

Oh, okay. So the operation was kind of like a tablet powered on while plugged in, and the atium capacity was always at like 1% or something, so if the crystals are destroyed/the tablet unplugged, after not long the operation could not be continued?

 

[Treamayne]

8 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

10 hours ago, scientificmotif said:

But doesn't that mean that there's a bunch of Atium lying ar

Because it while it is temporary, it takes about 300 years for the geodes to reform and produce Atium again after being destroyed

While I doubt many of the holes had anything inside (Walin's PoV indicates most were already harvested), even though the book does not explicitely say - my Head Canon is that Kelsier kept the few beads that were already formed out of the holes he destroyed.

8 hours ago, scientificmotif said:

Oh, okay. So the operation was kind of like a tablet powered on while plugged in, and the atium capacity was always at like 1% or something, so if the crystals are destroyed/the tablet unplugged, after not long the operation could not be continued?

Right. So as Ruin's power collects in liquid form at these "small Wells" (Brandon's term) in the Pits, Preservation's Meddling causes them to drip liquid investiture that collects and forms Solid investiture (as Atium) rather than remaining liquid (like the Well). With the Crystals broken, that process is interrupted (implying that had Vin not accidentally released Ruin - bad things might still have happened long before the Pits crystals could repair themselves) and the Geodes cannot form until the crystals regrow.

He also killed most of the guards and personnel and freed the slaves (by proxy). TFE Ch 32:

Spoiler

His hand quivered with anticipation as he felt the crystal buds. Yes, yes, that was them. They grew in a wide, circular pattern on the wall; they were small at the edges, but got gradually bigger near the center. At the direct middle of the circular pattern, the crystals curved inward, following a pocketlike hollow in the wall. Here, the crystals grew long, each one having a jagged, sharp edge. Like teeth lining the maw of a stone beast.

Taking a breath, praying to the Lord Ruler, Walin rammed his hand into the fist-sized, circular opening. The crystals ripped his arm, tearing long, shallow gashes in his skin. He ignored the pain, forcing his arm in further, up to his elbow, searching with his fingers for…

There! His fingers found a small rock at the center of the pocket—a rock formed by the mysterious drippings of the crystals. A Hathsin geode.

He grasped it eagerly, pulling it out, ripping his arm again as he withdrew it from the crystal-lined hole. He cradled the small rock sphere, breathing heavily with joy.

Another seven days. He would live another seven days.

<SNIP>

Walin cringed. The man, however, grabbed Walin’s hand and pulled him out of the crack.

“Go!” the man said quietly in the swirling mists. “Most of the guards are dead. Gather as many prisoners as you can, and escape this place. You have a geode?”

Walin cringed again, pulling his hand toward his chest.

“Good,” the stranger said. “Break it open. You’ll find a nugget of metal inside—it is very valuable. Sell it to the underground in whatever city you eventually find yourself; you should earn enough to live on for years. Go quickly! I don’t know how long you have until an alarm is raised.”

Walin stumbled back, confused. “Who…who are you?”

“I am what you will soon be,” the stranger said, stepping up to the rift. The ribbons of his enveloping black cloak billowed around him, mixing with the mists as he turned toward Walin. “I am a survivor.”

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Dalenthas

Does the Well of Ascension still exist in the new world? Or is it no longer necessary? I assumed that Preservation collected there like Ruin collects in the Pits of Hathsin, so if Atium keeps forming then the well should keep filling...

Brandon Sanderson

The Well (and the small wells in the Pits) is no more. For now at least.

Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

 

Hope that helps

Edited December 2, 2024 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Rashekin he/him]

A small parenthesis, since the Leatherbound edition in 2016 and later (mass market paperback of 2019, paperback of 2023, ebooks since 2023, all editions in Spanish since 2019) this topic was one of the things that Brandon changed and retconned. Atium crystals are now not destroyed when using any Allomantic power (such as tin) but only by Push and Pull with steel and iron.

From the Mistborn ebook, latest Tor edition (2023):

Spoiler

He stepped over to the rift and forced himself to climb down inside it. Then he burned tin, which illuminated the rift beneath him. Though the crack widened, it also branched, sending out twisting rifts in all directions. Part cavern, part crack, part tunnel.

He could already see his first crystalline atium hole. As he regarded the long, silvery crystals there, his scars seemed to throb in anticipation, to the beat of some unknown rhythm.

Pushing or Pulling on the atium crystals using Allomancy would cause them to shatter. That was why the Lord Ruler had to use slaves, and not Allomancers, to collect his atium for him.

Now the real test, Kelsier thought, squeezing farther into the crack, closer to the first crystals. He burned iron, and immediately he saw several blue lines pointing toward them as well as downward, toward other atium holes. Though the hole before him bore no atium geode, and the nearby ones surely had also been harvested, the crystals themselves gave off faint blue lines from residual traces of atium.

Kelsier focused on a few of the blue lines and Pulled lightly. The crystals before him fractured, fine lines lacing them, some fragments dropping away. His tin-enhanced ears heard more crystals shatter in the crack beneath him.

 

[Treamayne]

4 hours ago, Rashekin said:

one of the things that Brandon changed and retconned. Atium crystals are now not destroyed when using any Allomantic power (such as tin) but only by Push and Pull with steel and iron.

Thank you. 
No so much RetConned, as clarified - we already knew that some powers,  like Tin, did not affect them - since Mare (a TinEye) was sent to the Pits.

However, I think that it is not just Iron and Steel (though we have no direct confirmation) - since the crystals shatter when the power of Preservation is used against them (the power of Ruin). It may be possible that other external Allomantic abilities would have had the same effect. For example - if they had been able to use Bendalloy or Cadmium in Era 1, I think a time bubble would have broken them all (bathing the crystals in Preservation everywhere inside the bubble). 

Edited December 24, 2024 by Treamayne
SPAG