Treamayne Posted November 27, 2024 Posted November 27, 2024 (edited) So, during my SA re-read, a few disparate facts congealed but refuse to resolve into solid conclusions. I thought I would post them here for the group to discuss and brainstorm (and so I can concentrate on other things and hopefully dull the bouncing thoughts from distracting my empty brain). Knowns: Singers (Listeners) attune Rhythms Likely a SR Source - since disparate groups on the same rhythm stay synced over any distance Seons also appear to express Rhythms The Well's thumping was Prevervation's Tone and Rhythm Seekers are hearing variations on Preservation's Rhythms when burning Bronze Lifesense also functions, at least in part, on a Rhythm (Cognitive or Physical?) Likely Cognitive, since it can be blocked by Copper CR Rhythms can be modified or influenced Changes to the CR rhythm ripple through the SR and PR aspects of a given individual - based on Soothing, Rioting, Voidlight influence on Singers/Fused, and Moash's experience with Odium. So, my current line-of-thought is: Rhythms can exist in all three realms, and can originate from Investiture (SR) or Cognitive Aspect (CR) Rioting and Soothing may work on principles similar to constructive and destructive interference with a CR Rhythm Emotion Spren are attracted to certain CR Rhythms Which is why large crowds draw less Spren, as the various Rhythms interfere with each other - making no one clear "signal" Nightmaws and such are also attracted to CR Rhythms (which as also produced by Patji's fingers) Nigthmares are also likely attracted to similar CR Rhythms Any other thoughts, ideas, extrapolations, etc.? If accurate, what does this tell us about the Realmatics of Tone and Rhythm? WoBs: Spoiler Quote Mandi In [Words of Radiance] Shallan notes that spren don't appear around dense groups of people, even if emotions are high. Why is that? Brandon Sanderson You'll find out more eventually. There are several reasons, but imagine how a creature attracted to a specific color would respond if you dumped every color together in a big mess. Goodreads: Ask the Author Q&A (Aug. 13, 2014) Quote Aethenoth Can an Allomantic bronze burner hear the Rhythms on Roshar? Brandon Sanderson Yes, this is possible. General Signed Books 2016 (May 2, 2016) Quote Questioner If a Parshendi were to attain Allomancy and burn Bronze, how would they feel about the Bronze pulses? Brandon Sanderson They would feel that they were somewhat familiar but a little odd. Skyward San Diego signing (Nov. 7, 2018) Quote Titan Arum If someone on Nalthis had an aviar like Kokerli, would an Awakener’s lifesense work, or would the person be perceived as drab? Brandon Sanderson Yeah, the life sense would not work. Good question. Calamity Philadelphia signing (Feb. 20, 2016) Quote Questioner And then is there a connection between Aviars, copperclouds, aluminum, and the yellow spren, life sense, seeking? Brandon Sanderson Yeah, yeah all that, there are some relationships there. Questioner So they all pretty much would affect each other? Brandon Sanderson Ummm, yes, yes. Orem signing (Dec. 21, 2017) Seon Pulses (no WoBs) - Elantris Ch 32 Quote “All right,” Sarene said. “So after I ran off, Ashe called your seon and told you I was pursuing the king.” “‘The foolish girl is going off to get herself killed’ were his exact words, I believe,” Roial said, chuckling. “Ashe!” “I apologize, my lady,” the seon said, pulsing in embarrassment. “I was rather out of sorts.” Quote <Edited for Length and Relevance> Phantine Does that 'inside a body' thing work on most magics? For instance, if Han stuck Luke into a Mistborn Tauntaun (a distant and unlucky relative of the mistborn llama), would Luke be protected from both the cold and emotional allomancy? Brandon Sanderson He'd have to get him inside a living one. It does work on most magics, though the interactions can be odd unless you know a lot about the workings. Emotional Allomancy, for example, works by lapping against the outsides of someone's cognitive self, influencing you the way music might stir your soul. So being inside a living body wouldn't necessarily stop it--you'd just have more interference. Kind of like how you can still hear music outside if it's loud enough. Actual mind control in the cosmere requires you to get INSIDE the soul, which you've seen happen frequently enough. There has to be a gap or an opening. Or, conversely, you just have to be so powerful that you can push through the interference. /r/books AMA 2015 (July 14, 2015) Quote Questioner (paraphrased) Could a Soother prevent a listener from attuning a given rhythm? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) No. A coppercloud could, but I hadn't thought about emotional allomancy interacting. See, the rhythm isn't your emotion and doesn't determine your mood. It is a direct connection to the spiritual realm. So I guess soothing could make it harder just like it makes anything harder, in the same way that driving a car would be harder. [recording starts here] And so, for the same reasons that you can, um, it is possible that a coppercloud can play with it. Not a normal power of a coppercloud, but you’ve seen them do stuff similar. Footnote: Question was cut off in recording, first bit reproduced from memory Boskone 54 (Feb. 17, 2017) Edited November 27, 2024 by Treamayne SPAG 2
Trusk'our he/him Posted November 27, 2024 Posted November 27, 2024 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Treamayne said: So, during my SA re-read, a few disparate facts congealed but refuse to resolve into solid conclusions. I thought I would post them here for the group to discuss and brainstorm (and so I can concentrate on other things and hopefully dull the bouncing thoughts from distracting my empty brain). Knowns: Singers (Listeners) attune Rhythms Likely a SR Source - since disparate groups on the same rhythm stay synced over any distance Seons also appear to express Rhythms The Well's thumping was Prevervation's Tone and Rhythm Seekers are hearing variations on Preservation's Rhythms when burning Bronze Lifesense also functions, at least in part, on a Rhythm (Cognitive or Physical?) Likely Cognitive, since it can be blocked by Copper CR Rhythms can be modified or influenced Changes to the CR rhythm ripple through the SR and PR aspects of a given individual - based on Soothing, Rioting, Voidlight influence on Singers/Fused, and Moash's experience with Odium. So, my current line-of-thought is: Rhythms can exist in all three realms, and can originate from Investiture (SR) or Cognitive Aspect (CR) Rioting and Soothing may work on principles similar to constructive and destructive interference with a CR Rhythm Emotion Spren are attracted to certain CR Rhythms Which is why large crowds draw less Spren, as the various Rhythms interfere with each other - making no one clear "signal" Nightmaws and such are also attracted to CR Rhythms (which as also produced by Patji's fingers) Nigthmares are also likely attracted to similar CR Rhythms Any other thoughts, ideas, extrapolations, etc.? If accurate, what does this tell us about the Realmatics of Tone and Rhythm? WoBs: Hide contents Seon Pulses (no WoBs) - Elantris Ch 32 I would add that Cryptics have, if not access to Rhythms, a strong association with them, and that it is confirmed that the Rhythms are a result of a type of Connection to a SR phenomenon. Spoiler https://wob.coppermind.net/events/498-youtube-spoiler-stream-4/#e15662 Longshot_97 In the Stormlight Archive, Cryptics are often humming to tunes that denote their emotional state. A Rhythm of Curiosity is cited, and Pattern often hums when he is curious. The same goes for a Rhythm of Confusion. Are Cryptics humming to the Rhythms like the singers? If not, what are they humming? Brandon Sanderson They are humming to something very akin to the singer Rhythms. I would call them the same, with an asterisk. Spoiler https://wob.coppermind.net/events/117-boskone-54/#e1600 Questioner (paraphrased) Could a Soother prevent a listener from attuning a given rhythm? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) No. A coppercloud could, but I hadn't thought about emotional allomancy interacting. See, the rhythm isn't your emotion and doesn't determine your mood. It is a direct connection to the spiritual realm. So I guess soothing could make it harder just like it makes anything harder, in the same way that driving a car would be harder. [recording starts here] And so, for the same reasons that you can, um, it is possible that a coppercloud can play with it. Not a normal power of a coppercloud, but you’ve seen them do stuff similar. It could be that you can't have physical and cognitive Rhythms, as they're more of a SR thing. Cognitive Intent and physical vibrations may help Connect to them, but I suspect that’s a subtle distinction. Good thoughts overall. Edited November 27, 2024 by Trusk'our 1
Treamayne Posted November 27, 2024 Author Posted November 27, 2024 2 minutes ago, Trusk'our said: It could be that you can't have physical and cognitive Rhythms, as they're more of a SR thing. Cognitive Intent and physical vibrations may help Connect to them, but I suspect that’s a subtle distinction. My current thinking is that a CR rhythm is like a tuning fork. A SR Rhythm already implied to be a Constant (each Singer atuning a Rhythm here's the same thing at the same time) but that Rhythms can be attuned when not feeling that emotion - but can sometimes help induce that emotion (Eshonai Attuning Rhythm of Peace to feel calmer in WoR). This, to me, implies that the SR Rhythm is influencing something in the individual - which is what led me to start wondering about each person's CR aspect having Rhythms based on emotional state. That's when I remembered the WoB above about Soothing and Rioting actually "lapping" against the Cognitive Aspect. Since we actually see Vin Duralumin Seek one of Breeze's Soothings that results in her hearing the Rhythms of the emotions being influenced (WoA Ch 20). So, my guess is that for Emotions to be a Rhythm - and that Rhythm to be influenced - then those rhythms cannot just be a SR constant. For each individual, there likely needs to be in Individual Rhythm of Emotion (which changes in accordance with the felt/expressed emotion). And if WoB says that is influenced in the CR - then it is likely that these Individual Rhythms are also expressed as a CR Rhythm - which is what made me think of how Emotions attract Spren. It seems logical that Emotion Spren woudl be attracted to the Corresponding Emotion Rhythm when that Rhythm is expressed through a Cognitive Aspect. Like I said - no definitive conclusions yet - just thoughts circling like highstorm winds that I hoped to share to inspire discussion and brainstorming. Spoiler . She flared the bronze, concentrating so hard she felt she’d give herself a headache. There was a…vibration to the pulses. But what that could mean, she wasn’t certain. Focus! she told herself. However, the pulses stubbornly refused to yield any further information. Fine, she thought. I’ll cheat. She turned off her tin—she almost always had it on a little bit—then reached inside and burned the fourteenth metal. Duralumin. The Allomantic pulses became so loud…so powerful…she swore she could feel their vibrations shaking her apart. They pounded like beats from a massive drum set right beside her. But she got something from them. Anxiety, nervousness, worry, insecurity, anxiety, nervousness, worry— It was gone, her bronze expended in one massive flare of power. Vin opened her eyes; no one in the room was looking at her except OreSeur. She felt drained. The headache she’d predicted before now came in full force, thudding inside her head like the tiny brother of the drum she’d now banished. However, she held to the information she’d gleaned. It hadn’t come in words, but feelings—and her first fear was that Breeze was making these emotions appear. Anxiety, nervousness, worry. However, she immediately realized that Breeze was a Soother. If he focused on emotions, it would be the ones he was dampening. The ones he was using his powers to Soothe away. She looked from him to Elend. Why…he’s making Elend more confident! 1
Ewery1 Posted November 27, 2024 Posted November 27, 2024 This is super interesting - wondering if Ashertmarn works in a similar way? He's described as beating with a strange, irregular rhythm. It would line up. 1
Treamayne Posted November 27, 2024 Author Posted November 27, 2024 50 minutes ago, Ewery1 said: This is super interesting - wondering if Ashertmarn works in a similar way? He's described as beating with a strange, irregular rhythm. It would line up. Not only beating to a Rhythm, but specifically influencing the emotions of those around him Spoiler Ashertmarn takes the form of a giant, black, inhuman heart that beats to an irregular rhythm. Thick black veins sprout from the heart, melding with the ground nearby.[3] He leads people to indulge in excess. He speaks to the people in his area, urging them to abandon their lives and responsibilities. The closer one is to him, the harder it is to resist Ashertmarn's tempting plea.[3]
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