Theorizing Endowment’s plans

[AleStaar he/him]

So I’ve finally finished Warbreaker. I don’t have any speculation about the human side of things, but I have speculation in spades about the... divine side of things.

Someone told me the god for this world - the entity who shows someone the future and Returns them - is known as Endowment. 

I would like to talk about this more in detail. But it was recommended to read this book before The Stormlight Archive, so no looking on the Coppermind for me. I’ve read all of Mistborn, Elantris, Emperor’s Soul, and Warbreaker. But I would like this to be accessible to people who've only read Warbreaker, so there are no explicit mentions of outside plots. 

I will clarify that this is based on an... attribute of worldbuilding... that gods in the cosmere see infinite future possibilities. They don't know what WILL happen, they see what MIGHT happen. 

My impression after finishing Warbreaker is that Endowment has been using very powerful future sight to purposely construct something grand and very subtle for over 600 years. If not, on a far longer timescale. 

There are a lot of red flags in mind. Sorry for the length. Future sight and prophecy are my hyperfixation:

1. Hallandren's valley is the only jungle on Nalthis, and the only place where the Tears of Edgli can grow. This reminds me of something elsewhere in the cosmere. Something purposely crafted by a god, to fulfill a design in the future.

2. Many unfulfilled Returns happen simultaneously, some even operate on a timescale of >10 years. For example, Blushweaver’s 15 years and Hopefinder’s >11 years.  This seems to imply that Endowment is a god capable of making long-spanning plans that run simultaneously. That’s always a dangerous enemy.

3. I think it's possible she can "tie together" the reasons for certain Returns. Lightsong Returned so he could restore the God King's tongue, which would overpower Bluefingers' revolt. Restoring the God King's tongue was so important because his death would've triggered the destruction of Hallandren, caused by Idrians empowered by Yesteel's swords. Blushweaver Returned to prevent the fall of T'Telir to the invaders that would come after Bluefingers' revolt. And while neither Blushweaver nor Endowment were guaranteed to prevent this, it seems the latter might have taken extra steps to get close. Blushweaver's efforts to gather the armies pushed Lightsong to take action. Blushweaver's murder, and the sacrifices of Calmseer and Brighthue, were things that pushed Lightsong to be the humble investigator who would sacrifice his Breath to his king. And in a way, Lightsong's sacrifice fulfilled the reason for Blushweaver's much earlier Return.

4. The previous point demonstrates Endowment's ability to account for the machinations of both living Returned and mortals. It seems she accounted for the activities of Yesteel, AND the Pahn Kahl manipulations that were active before Bluefingers was steward.

5. There are a few strange Returns, as if they’re meticulously designed by Endowment. Vo was the only Returned to have children, and he had a huge butterfly effect on the world. Infant Returned seem designed to be God Kings for decades or centuries, and I still don’t know what they’ve all done after stepping down. The Five Scholars are huge warnings. Denth and Shashara were either descended from Vo, or were Hanald royals themselves. Then there's Vasher... just…  Vasher. What… even is Vasher. 
6. Out of anyone, I think Vasher has a special purpose among Returned. A vital piece in Endowment's plans. Despite all he's accomplished after more than 300 years, including being the Slaughterer of Scholars, he still hasn't fulfilled his purpose.

7. She chooses to Return infants (God Kings) or toddlers (Hopefinder) for long-spanning purposes. Despite them seemingly not having significant pasts/deaths.

8. If we assume the Returned often draw upon a tiny fraction of Endowment's future sight, and this influences their decisions, I think her plans (or at least the future possibilities she has at her disposal) incorporate various focal events. Including but not limited to: the Manywar being predicted, Vasher starting the Manywar, Vasher taking over Hanald, Vasher starting the dynasty of God Kings, Vasher hiding Kalad's Phantoms, Allmother and Lightsong's meeting, Blushweaver's murder, Llarimar "sleeping," the God King crying, or the close occurrence of Hallandren and Idris going down. I remember a moment where Lightsong dreamed of Nightblood, so I bet Nightblood's existence is a focal point of her plans. Or Yesteel's Nightblood-esque swords.

9. Endowment might be capable of making long-term plans that go beyond the moment a Returned remembers their previous life and dies. Vo's butterfly effect comes to mind. Or, her plans can require a Returned to live beyond the moment of remembrance. Denth remembers Shashara was his sister. Either Arsteel or Yesteel remembered they were brothers. Neither of these can happen without regaining memory… which seems like a meticulous feature planted by Endowment that happens at a specific moment.

10. Alternatively, Endowment could just be extremely adaptable if a plan goes “wrong.” Say…  she didn’t plan for Denth not to give up his divine Breath. It's possible she was able to change and adapt her plans for Denth over the centuries. 

  
That's pretty much it. I just think that even with the small crumbs of Nalthian history we got, there were a lot of strange things that got me thinking a god "ordained" some of this stuff. For what reasons, I don't know. Just wanted to cover all the bases of what her future sight might encompass. 

Wanted to get this out of the way, before I start my first read of The Stormlight Archive.

Hope someone enjoys this.

Edited November 13, 2024 by Ale the Metallic Conjurer
Added paragraph breaks

[Treamayne]

Thank you for another interesting post analysis.

Please keep in mind that not every Return is necessarily meant for a larger (country, world) goal - and Returned are dealt with very differently in other countries:

Spoiler

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

Chapter Forty-Seven

Calmseer

Calmseer was indeed a spectacularly good Returned—the last of the old guard, so to speak. She Returned, in fact, in order to save the life of her daughter. She of course forgot this once she got back.

She did complain about not being able to do enough for people, though she had that personality even before Returning. She was the self-sacrificing type who took care of those around her and always had a kindly attitude. She died from an illness she caught while caring for the sick family who lived next door to her. (They'd lost their father to the same illness, and while all eventually recovered, Calmseer herself came down with their disease and passed away from it.)

She didn't give up her Breath because of what Lightsong assumes, that she felt so guilty for not being able to do more for people. Instead, she saw her daughter come through the petitions line. The woman was brought by her husband, who felt he had no other option. His wife had the same disease Calmseer had. She remembered, at that moment, why she had come back—indeed, she remembered her entire life (that's common for Returned the moment before they give up their Breath)—and gave away her life to heal her daughter.

Warbreaker Annotations (March 21, 2011)

Of course, we do not know (yet - or may never know) why saving the daughter was important. But, it could just be that was what Calmseer's cognitive shadow saw in the Iridescent Tones and it was enough for her to Return - no larger purpose at all.

Annotations -

Ch 14:

Quote

Returned live for eight days without a Breath, though the week is seven days long in this world. Why? Well, I figured that they’d need an extra day as leeway. On day seven, they start to grow weak and sluggish. If they don’t consume a Breath, their body will consume their own on the eighth day of their life, and they’ll die again.

In some parts of this world, Returned aren’t worshipped, but instead seen as something akin to vampires. They draw in Breath to survive, and need a supply of people to feed off of. They tend to wear black, since it’s the most powerful color for draining to Awaken things.

Ch 4:

Quote

Yes, there are Returned in Idris. There are Returned everywhere in this world that there are people.

I’d like someday to do a sequel to Warbreaker, in part because I want to show off all of the different ways people in Nalthis deal with the Returned. They’re treated in very strange ways some places. For instance, just across the mountains there’s a kingdom where when someone dies in a way that might be heroic, the corpse is immediately purchased by a nobleman hoping to hit the jackpot and get a Returned. You see, since Returned can heal people, keeping one around to act as an emergency insurance plan to restore your health is a great idea.

 

 

3 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

My impression after finishing Warbreaker is that Endowment has been using very powerful future sight to purposely construct something grand and very subtle for over 600 years. If not, on a far longer timescale. 

Endowement is likely one of the stronger Shards in accessing Fortune. But, how that relates to Returned seems to be more about Connection than access to Fortune.

Spoiler

Annotations to Ch 26:

Quote

This is our first major clue (though a subtle one at the same time) that there might be something to the religion of the Iridescent Tones. Lightsong does see something in this painting that a regular person wouldn’t be able to. A well crafted piece of art, made by a person channeling the Tones and connected to them via Breath, can speak to a Returned.

<snip>

Lightsong doesn’t actually prophesy about the black sword in the way the priest thinks. In other words, Lightsong isn’t prophesying that he’ll see the Black Sword (Nightblood) in the day’s activities.

Instead, Lightsong is seeing an image of a previous war, which is prophetic in that another Manywar is brewing—and in both cases, Nightblood will be important to the outcome of the battle.

<snip>

She is seen here in Lightsong’s vision as she’s drawing Nightblood at the battle of Twilight Falls. It’s the only time the sword was drawn in battle, and Vasher was horrified by the result.

It’s because of her insistence on using the sword in battle, and in giving away the secret to creating more, that Vasher and she fought. He ended up killing her with Nightblood, which they’d created together during the days they were in love—he married her a short time before their falling out. That marriage ended with him slaying his own wife to keep her from creating more abominations like Nightblood and loosing them upon the world.

WoB:

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Trae

Previously, you've revealed that the mechanism that determines the Returned on Nalthis is a decision of a sapient entity... Is the determination by which the entity that selects the recipient of a Divine Breath to come back as a Returned predicated on that recipient fulfilling some purpose in the Physical Realm?

Brandon Sanderson

...Basically they are asking... "Why does the entity that picks who Returns, why did they pick who they did?" And, your question kind of implies there's, like, specific tasks to fulfill. I'm gonna say, there aren't specifics, but there are certain things this entity is looking for--

Trae

In the Physical Realm?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. There are certain things that they are looking for. Now, sometimes-- let's just say this entity is not necessarily the most consistent of entities in the cosmere when it comes to making decisions like this. But there are certain things they are looking for.

JordanCon 2018 (April 21, 2018)

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Trae Cooper

In the past we deeply discussed the mechanism with which Breaths are decided to be doled out or endowed on Nalthis. And you said that there is an intellect that is doling them out, but that their intentions or that their goals are difficult to predict or nonstandard. And my question is: are they nonstandard because the base Vessel behind them does not have, at its core, a standard human psychology? 

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO! Good question. Excellent question. RAFO, I like the way you're theorizing. I have said before, that there are multiple nonhuman Vessels in the Cosmere. So, your theorizing perhaps is going to bear fruit.

Footnote: The questioner is referring to this WoB.
JordanCon 2021 (July 17, 2021)

 

 

Re: Nightblood (without spoilers):

Spoiler

Annotations to Ch 26:

Quote

Nightblood is part of a much larger story in this world. He’s dropped casually into this particular book, more as a side note than a real focus of what’s going on, but his own role in the world is much, much larger than his supporting part here would indicate.

 

Hope that helps.

Edited November 13, 2024 by Treamayne
SPAG

[alder24]

3 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

1. Hallandren's valley is the only jungle on Nalthis, and the only place where the Tears of Edgli can grow. This reminds me of something elsewhere in the cosmere. Something purposely crafted by a god, to fulfill a design in the future.

It should have. Hallandren's jungle is the way it is because it's saturated with investiture leaking from perpendicularity located in this area.

Spoiler

Questioner

Is there a similar relationship between Endowment and Hallandren's jungle as there is between Harmony and Elendel Basin ?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes and no. The flowers are being fed by something that's very similar to what you might find on other planets. So the ground is saturated with something that is having a similar effect as Elendel Basin. But it's not the same thing. Elendel Basin was just crafted really, really well, and then it was endowed with a little bit of extra oomph. Here [in Hallandren's jungle], we have this extra seeping into the ground from the pool, which is saturated around and causing the flowers and causing what's going on there.

SpoCon 2013 (July 10, 2013)

 

3 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

I remember a moment where Lightsong dreamed of Nightblood, so I bet Nightblood's existence is a focal point of her plans.

It was a painting, but yes. A cherry on top is the fact that Endowment was involved more than usual in the creation of Nightblood and I can't say more without spoiling things.

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Lightsong Sees the Painting of the Red Battle

This is our first major clue (though a subtle one at the same time) that there might be something to the religion of the Iridescent Tones. Lightsong does see something in this painting that an ordinary person wouldn't be able to. A well-crafted piece of art, made by a person channeling the Tones and connected to them via Breath, can speak to a Returned. Now, in this case, it doesn't work quite like Llarimar says it does—Lightsong doesn't actually prophesy about the black sword in the way the priest thinks. In other words, Lightsong isn't prophesying that he'll see the Black Sword (Nightblood) in the day's activities.

Instead, Lightsong is seeing an image of a previous war, which is prophetic in that another Manywar is brewing—and in both cases, Nightblood will be important to the outcome of the battle.

The person Lightsong sees in the abstract painting is Shashara, Denth's sister, one of the Five Scholars and a Returned also known as Glorysinger by the Cult of the Returned. She is seen here in Lightsong's vision as she's drawing Nightblood at the battle of Twilight Falls. It's the only time the sword was drawn in battle, and Vasher was horrified by the result.

It's because of her insistence on using the sword in battle, and on giving away the secret to creating more, that Vasher and she fought. He ended up killing her with Nightblood, which they'd created together during the days they were in love—he married her a short time before their falling out. That marriage ended with him slaying his own wife to keep her from creating more abominations like Nightblood and loosing them upon the world.

Nightblood is part of a much larger story in this world. He's dropped casually into this particular book, more as a side note than a real focus of what's going on, but his own role in the world is much, much larger than his supporting part here would indicate.

Warbreaker Annotations (Nov. 16, 2010)

 

Spoiler

OrangeJedi

When Nightblood created, was Endowment involved in any way more than normal?

Brandon Sanderson

Good question, you qualified that the right way! I would say yes, but maybe not to the extent you're thinking.

OrangeJedi

Normal being using Endowment's Investiture to Awaken. There's something special.

Brandon Sanderson

I would say, there is something special.

Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018)

 

3 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

Denth remembers Shashara was his sister. Either Arsteel or Yesteel remembered they were brothers. Neither of these can happen without regaining memory… which seems like a meticulous feature planted by Endowment that happens at a specific moment.

This is something that will be explained in the sequel, but this can also be achieved without anything special going on. If they all Returned not at the same time, and weren't immediately taken by the Cult of the Returned, they could have reminded each other that they are siblings. They could have come from a different country, not everyone treats Returned like they do in Hallandren, for example Returned in Idris are treated differently and they generally stay for a week with their family before they die again.

Or they'd regained their memories, but intentionally or not they failed to fulfill their reasons for Return. 

Another rather far-fetching possibility, they were scholars when they were alive and they made themselves into Returned. If you're invested enough in the moment of death, you will become a Cognitive Shadow - this doesn't mean Returned specifically, so that's why it's far-fetching (still it's my headcanon for now  ).

Spoiler

EogelAorist

Denth and Shashara, and Arsteel and Yesteel, are referred to and refer to themselves as siblings, despite being Returned. Does that mean they have knowledge of who they were while alive, and Vasher is the only Scholar who doesn't?

Brandon Sanderson

Oooh, what a wonderful question. What a wonderful question! Guess what! RAFO. You are supposed to be noticing and asking that. You're supposed to be asking some of these questions about them and about the scholars and about poor Vasher and how this all plays together.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 3 (Dec. 16, 2021)

 

Spoiler

sonofstannis

Regarding the sibling relationships of Yesteel/Arsteel and VaraTreledees/Shashara, were either pairing Returned simultaneously? If so, how did they know they were siblings? And do any of the four know their original birth names? Finally, is it coincidence that there are two pairs of siblings in the Five Scholars or is there something more at work?

Brandon Sanderson

I do intend to delve into questions like in your first point when I return to that world, so I'll RAFO for now.

/r/books AMA 2015 (May 18, 2015)

 

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Other Notes

Yes, there are Returned in Idris. There are Returned everywhere in this world that there are people. (The name of this world is Nalthis, by the way. Mistborn takes place on a world called Scadrial, and Elantris on a world known as Sel. See the fun things you learn by reading annotations?)

I'd like someday to do a sequel to Warbreaker, in part because I want to show off all of the different ways people in Nalthis deal with the Returned. They're treated in very strange ways some places. For instance, just across the mountains there's a kingdom where when someone dies in a way that might be heroic, the corpse is immediately purchased by a nobleman hoping to hit the jackpot and get a Returned. You see, since Returned can heal people, keeping one around to act as an emergency insurance plan to restore your health is a great idea.

Warbreaker Annotations (Aug. 10, 2010)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

Because Zahel was especially Invested when he died, he became that other soul. Does that mean that Elend wasn't actually...?

Brandon Sanderson

Zahel is a special case. What happened with him is, on his planet, he was specifically chosen by the Shard to be Returned. That happens, you don't have to be specifically Invested for that. The god gives them that. Now, to become a Cognitive Shadow, which is what certain people in the cosmere are, you need a powerful amount, an enormous amount.

Questioner

So not the bead?

Brandon Sanderson

Not just being a Mistborn, not just... he wasn't even close to being where he needed to be, if you want to end up as a Cognitive Shadow. You need to do some special hoops. We're talking, drawing forth the power of a Shard, or being endowed with the power of a Shard, or a certain number of Breaths would do it. There is a threshold that you could get, you're gonna end up as a Cognitive Shadow.

FanX 2021 (Sept. 17, 2021)

 

 

[AleStaar he/him]

On 11/13/2024 at 7:20 AM, Treamayne said:

Thank you for another interesting post analysis.

Please keep in mind that not every Return is necessarily meant for a larger (country, world) goal - and Returned are dealt with very differently in other countries:

I love making post analyses! I hope Stormlight encourages me to make a lot more lol.

That is something I should keep in mind, thanks! Though at the same time, weirdly enough I feel like that makes Endowment scarier than first glace. I think Endowment gifting divine Breath to people who seemingly don’t have significant Return purposes - such as Calmseer sacrificing her divine Breath to heal her daughter - adds a particularly dangerous layer to her Intent, future sight, and planning. 

I believe they not only cover the greater scale purposes of the Five Scholars (especially Vasher), Lightsong, and Blushweaver… but can also cover the lesser scale scope of just blessing the gift of spending one more week with family, or living a few more years then healing a dying daughter. 

Mistborn all Spoilers:

Spoiler

Which… is particularly scary to me when you look at how Preservation was able to outplay Ruin so often. Which doesn’t mean too much since Ruin’s future sight is somwhere between zero and abysmal but…

Ruin’s problem was ignoring sacrifice, selfessness, and “less significant individuals.” In my eyes, Ruin foresaw the possibility of Elend’s death/sacrifice driving Vin to murder-suicide Ruin. But he underestimated it, because he underestimated/dismissed the selflessness and love behind Vin and Elend’s sacrifices. 

We see this trend with how he was screwed by over Preservation’s roles for Rashek, Elend, possibly the kandra, and Sazed. 

Endowment has better future sight than Ruin by orders of magnitude. Much closer to Preservation, it appears. I believe she understands that some people just want to live a little more, and understands the potential of someone sacrificing their lives so someone else may live. But she also understands the importance of murder or destruction, and of plans spanning decades or centuries. It seems her plans have involved Blushweaver’s murder, the Manywar happening, and the second Manywar almost happening. She was involved more than usual in the creation of Nightblood. WoBs seem to imply that Yesteel and Vasher don’t know that Yesteel’s experiments wouldn’t make another Nightblood.

Well, I’m surprised to hear there are more Returned Awakeners than the Five Scholars. Personally, I find that more significant than you might. I really hope the Warbreaker sequel delves into this.

On 11/13/2024 at 7:20 AM, Treamayne said:

Endowement is likely one of the stronger Shards in accessing Fortune. But, how that relates to Returned seems to be more about Connection than access to Fortune.

Interesting… I personally think deliberate Fortune is involved when she shows a potential Returned a future vision. But if a Returned sees the past and future through a painting or dreams, that is more about Connection. 

On 11/13/2024 at 8:48 AM, alder24 said:

It was a painting, but yes. A cherry on top is the fact that Endowment was involved more than usual in the creation of Nightblood and I can't say more without spoiling things.

I was referring to the one page chapter where Susebrone dreamt of T’Telir burning, Susebron dead, soldiers in the streets, Lifeless killing people, and Nightblood.

But, wow. Well that is terrifying. Endowment is devious.