Inter-Arcana Implications Discussion [Minor Spoilers for all Cosmere]

[AnthonyC4]

So, there are lots of different magic systems in the Cosmere. And they operate upon the same fundamental rules. As a result, there can be some interesting peculiarities that happen when certain arcana are brought together. I would like to speculate as to what interesting coincidences can be brought about as a result of each magic system.

• Allomancy + Feruchemy

So we already know that you can use Allomancy to enchance the power you get from Feruchemy. This is pretty common knowledge. But I've seen a WoB that says you can do the same but in reverse, that is enhancing Allomancy using Feruchemy. Perhaps by storing some amount of a property into a metalmind, then ingesting and burning it.

• AonDor + Lightweaving

I've seen some people speculate that the Aons for AonDor have some sort of harmonic rhythm to them, and Lightweaving has interesting applications for that. I saw this one on reddit some time ago, but forgot the potential applications.

• Feruchemy + Awakening

We know that Era 3 will likely heavily feature Awakened metalminds, and supposedly this has some incredible technological benefit. I'm not entirely sure what this might entail though.

• Allomancy + Bondsmith

This is more to do with Connections than anything, but remember in Rhythm of War, where Ishar Connected the Radiants to the ground, causing the Stormlight to bleed out of their bodies into the planet? What if that happened with an Allomancer? If the planet is now considered a part of their body, could they not just burn all the metal reserves of the entire planet? If such a person burned aluminum, would that destroy all allomantic metals on the planet?

• Forgery + Surge of Transformation

I have to imagine there's an interesting quirk if you combine these two abilities.

• Voidbinding + Surgebinding

Again, there's almost certainly some sort of interesting cross-over between these two.

On a slightly different note, I am very interested in Elantris 2 and 3, because Selish magic is a bit too unexplained for my liking, and I want to see the full scope of the Dor and its potential applications on other magic systems.

[Wanguu He/Him]

16 hours ago, AnthonyC4 said:

• Allomancy + Bondsmith

This is more to do with Connections than anything, but remember in Rhythm of War, where Ishar Connected the Radiants to the ground, causing the Stormlight to bleed out of their bodies into the planet? What if that happened with an Allomancer? If the planet is now considered a part of their body, could they not just burn all the metal reserves of the entire planet? If such a person burned aluminum, would that destroy all allomantic metals on the planet?

Aluminum isn't the best metal for this because it doesn't appear naturally. A mistborn cannot burn the aluminum present in rubies, for example. If it was copper, gold, or silver, then it could be possible. Has it been confirmed that eating the metal connects you to it allows you to burn it?

[AnthonyC4]

3 hours ago, Wanguu said:

Aluminum isn't the best metal for this because it doesn't appear naturally. A mistborn cannot burn the aluminum present in rubies, for example. If it was copper, gold, or silver, then it could be possible. Has it been confirmed that eating the metal connects you to it allows you to burn it?

If I remember correctly, metals are keys, but can probably be more accurately described as Commands, that let you Connect to Preservation for an effect. You don't Connect to the metal itself. Maybe you could, though I'm not sure it would affect anything.

As for the aluminum, you could in theory just have allomantic aluminum on hand in a vial, drink it, then burn it that way. I'm not sure if aluminum takes time to destroy metal reserves or not.

Edited November 13, 2024 by AnthonyC4

[Wanguu He/Him]

1 hour ago, AnthonyC4 said:

As for the aluminum, you could in theory just have allomantic aluminum on hand in a vial, drink it, then burn it that way. I'm not sure if aluminum takes time to destroy metal reserves or not.

I was more referring to the fact that there's no allomantically available aluminum in the planets crust, and it seems that's true for Scadrial as well. A mistborn cannot swallow a ruby and burn the elemental aluminum present in the ruby (which is mostly aluminum oxide)

[alder24]

19 hours ago, Wanguu said:

Aluminum isn't the best metal for this because it doesn't appear naturally. A mistborn cannot burn the aluminum present in rubies, for example. If it was copper, gold, or silver, then it could be possible.

You're right, you would need to find pure, Allomantic metals in the planet to burn it. Most don't exist like that in nature. Even copper or iron are mostly found as ores, being bound to a bunch of other elements. 

19 hours ago, Wanguu said:

Has it been confirmed that eating the metal connects you to it allows you to burn it?

It's about proximity to the soul. You swallow metals so they can get inside of or close to your soul, to become a part of your spirit web. I don't know if a mere Connection created by Ishar would be enough to consider metals in the planet as being close to or a part of your soul.

Spoiler

Questioner

So, would Allomancy work if the metals were a suppository?

Brandon Sanderson

That is theoretically possible, but gross... There's nothing special about the stomach. It's kinda getting it into your spirit, and things.

Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017)

 

Spoiler

Trae Cooper (paraphrased)

Why are Invested objects like metalminds and Hemalurgic spikes able to be Pushed and Pulled on, but Shardblades and Shardplate, which are also invested, are not susceptible to Pushing and Pulling?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

There were a few concepts that he outlined in answering this question.

1.) The ability to Push/Pull an Invested object is predicated to the amount/power of the Investiture.

2.) Further, Invested objects also gain resistance to pulling/pushing based on proximity to soul possibly via the soul. An example given is that a Hemalurgic spike touches the blood of the person, and from there is now part of both the Spiritual Realm and the Physical Realm. This provides what Brandon termed a kind of "soul interference," based on its proximity to the soul.

This further explains why Vin required more than normal power to Push/Pull the metalminds from the Lord Ruler, because of their proximity to his soul, via the Spiritual Realm.

3.) The amount of Investiture is relatively low on Scadrial, whereas worlds like Sel and Roshar are pushing around "high power" according to Brandon. I interpreted this to mean that Hemalurgic spikes and metalminds have low amounts of Investiture compared to Shardplate and Shardblades.

Brandon said that theoretically you can Push/Pull Shardblades and Shardplates but you would need to wield an incredible amount of power. One example he gave that could so such as a thing is that if you were a Mistborn wielding the full power of the Well of Ascension, you could Push/Pull Shardblades/Plate.

DragonCon 2012 (Sept. 4, 2012)

 

[Sophrosyne He/any]

On 11/12/2024 at 7:08 PM, AnthonyC4 said:

• AonDor + Lightweaving

I've seen some people speculate that the Aons for AonDor have some sort of harmonic rhythm to them, and Lightweaving has interesting applications for that. I saw this one on reddit some time ago, but forgot the potential applications.

remotely drawing Aons is, on its own an amazing thing. but I bet this is how you could access to large amounts of Dor, some combination of Aon's allowing it to just leak out or gather.

[AnthonyC4]

18 hours ago, alder24 said:

It's about proximity to the soul. You swallow metals so they can get inside of or close to your soul, to become a part of your spirit web. I don't know if a mere Connection created by Ishar would be enough to consider metals in the planet as being close to or a part of your soul.

I thought souls/Spiritwebs exist in the Spiritual Realm, where Time and Space don't matter? If the Planet has Connections to you such that investiture believes it is an extension of your body, I would imagine that would bring it "closer" to your soul.

5 hours ago, Sophrosyne said:

remotely drawing Aons is, on its own an amazing thing. but I bet this is how you could access to large amounts of Dor, some combination of Aon's allowing it to just leak out or gather.

I didn't even think about being able to remotely draw Aons. Man, sometimes I wonder if we will ever see all the possible combinations of magics that the Cosmere can offer.

[Sophrosyne He/any]

2 minutes ago, AnthonyC4 said:

I thought souls/Spiritwebs exist in the Spiritual Realm, where Time and Space don't matter? If the Planet has Connections to you such that investiture believes it is an extension of your body, I would imagine that would bring it "closer" to your soul.

All three aspects of a person or object overlap in some way or another. that's how Fortune can work. as far as proximity to the spirit web and burning metal. there's a reason you have to swallow the metal or use it as a piercing, it's got to be part of you. to be burned but there's no telling where the exact line is and if bondsmihing would be enough but the idea of one aluminum gnat getting tagged by a bondsmith and removing metal from a whole planet is kinda awesome!

 

9 minutes ago, AnthonyC4 said:

I didn't even think about being able to remotely draw Aons. Man, sometimes I wonder if we will ever see all the possible combinations of magics that the Cosmere can offer.

I'm doubtful, If each world has some magic, and most shards have their own we're talking hundreds of combinations I mean just look at how many twinborn combinations there are...