Mraize's Target

[GudThymes he/him]

Chapters 25 and 26 were very very interesting because it truly showed us the splinters within the Rosharan Ghostblood organization and what everyone's goals are. It's already known that this group is not perfectly aligned with Thaidakar and his goal to protect Scadrial, or at least they have very different interpretations of how to achieve said goal. So then what does each faction truly want to achieve?

Starting with the less knowledgeable more rank and file Rosharan members, Icy Tongue states that it is to get Investiture off world.

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“Wait,” said Icy Tongue. “Mraize, how does this help Master Thaidakar’s plans?”

Mraize didn’t reply, instead sighting his target and loosing. He finally hit the red center circle.

“We should be working on our plan,” Icy Tongue said, “to transport Stormlight offworld, now that we know it can be blanked of Identity and transferred between realms. How does chasing down some ancient spren further Master Thaidakar’s orders to provide him a renewable source of Investiture?”

Reasonable, Thaidakar likely has other goals for the Rosharan cell to achieve but they weren't about the spren it seems. Before Iyatil realizes that Shallan is there she answers us honestly about what she wants to achieve. That she doubts Mraize has the same goals as herself and that her goal is also to protect Scadrial.

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“We are not seeking an ally,” Iyatil said. 

 

“Something is wrong with him,” Iyatil said softly. “I do not think he has been replaced with a duplicate, but I do question his loyalty to our cause.”

 

“He is smarter than you give him credit for. He works to protect his homeland above all else, but once we find Mishram for my purposes, he will see. Master Thaidakar can only protect his land if the Shards can be controlled. Will this fit your plans as well?”

So Iyatil is looking to subjugate BAM in some way, and is trying to control the shards themselves. So if both Iyatil and Thaidakar want to protect Scadrial but disagree on the means and Mraize wants the same "means" (to go to the Spiritual Realm) as Iyatil, but has different goals. Then what are his goals?

I think his monologuing in this chapter explains what he is trying to do.

Quote

“Interesting words, Chain,” Mraize said, sighting with his hand ballista and loosing again. “Words spoken with the wisdom of the past—excellent at teaching us to deal with the world as it has existed. And only as it has existed.”

Oh, storms. A gemstone by itself was meaningless. But if he managed to get hold of the anti-Stormlight that Navani had developed...

“Once in the Spiritual Realm,” Mraize said, “Iyatil and I will watch Dalinar. If we stay close to him, most likely he will lead us to the prison.”

Specifically, one had a gemstone affixed with white-blue light that warped the air around it. 

So Mraize has the ability to deliver anti-stormlight in a weapon specifically designed to deliver "payloads". He plans on waiting to use anything until he gets to the prison itself. And most importantly he wants to use his weapon in a new way. The wisdom of the past is only useful in the old world, not the new.

 

With that said here is my supposition. Mraize is going to the SR not to kill BAM or any specific Spren, but to destroy BAMs prison itself. Since the majority of Honors power was left in the SR and we do not know exactly what is imprisoning BAM, what if the power itself is the prison and Mraize is going to destroy the majority of the Shards power itself by creating a light/anti light annihilation.

We've seen Spren killed by the anti-light, we know Ado was splintered into a number of shards, we have seen Shards themselves killed and their power be wrecked and distributed in a variety of ways (AonDor, the mists, whatever is going on with Threnody, Harmony) but we have yet to see the Shardic Intent be destroyed.

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

3 minutes ago, GudThymes said:

what if the power itself is the prison and Mraize is going to destroy the majority of the Shards power itself by creating a light/anti light annihilation.

I agree that he has some dubious goal in mind that we are uncertain of, but I don't think this is it. You would need a LOT of anti-light to destroy even a fragment of a shard's investiture. It could be as simple as Mraize having the mindset of ensuring he is always the 'hunter' and therefore that he needs to update his weapons of choice with the newest technology available. But I do think there will be some application of that weapon that marks a major turning point in the plot of the book. No idea what it will be yet!

[GudThymes he/him]

8 minutes ago, CognitiveShadow said:

You would need a LOT of anti-light to destroy even a fragment of a shard's investiture.

I agree that this is the weakest part of my idea. Do we know exactly how the reaction works though? Specifically whether it is cascading or not?

There's also the fact that the explosion would be in the SR that could change things.

[Lavitz1023]

That’s an intriguing thought! It makes sense to consider if BAM could be the spren of stone. If Odium started investing in Roshar, BAM might have managed to co-opt his power because she represents the earth itself. To counter her, Honor or Cultivation would have had to act directly, possibly imprisoning her within the Spiritual Realm. This act might have inadvertently left Honor vulnerable, exposing him to Odium’s attack.

 

The timing could align, especially if the False Desolation happened while the Heralds were unavailable, leaving Honor in a desperate situation where such a drastic measure seemed necessary.

 

[alder24]

1 hour ago, GudThymes said:

With that said here is my supposition. Mraize is going to the SR not to kill BAM or any specific Spren, but to destroy BAMs prison itself. Since the majority of Honors power was left in the SR and we do not know exactly what is imprisoning BAM, what if the power itself is the prison and Mraize is going to destroy the majority of the Shards power itself by creating a light/anti light annihilation.

We've seen Spren killed by the anti-light, we know Ado was splintered into a number of shards, we have seen Shards themselves killed and their power be wrecked and distributed in a variety of ways (AonDor, the mists, whatever is going on with Threnody, Harmony) but we have yet to see the Shardic Intent be destroyed.

That's impossible. The power of the Shard is so enormous, that it's basically infinite. It's not possible to create enough anti-light to annihilate even a noticeable fraction of it. And Mraize would still be killed in the explosion that would follow and that explosion could very likely affect CR and PR as well - investiture is turning into energy and that energy has to go somewhere. RoW ch 97:

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"This is why,” Navani said, kneeling beside the two. “Your god hinted that anti-Voidlight was possible, and you suspected what it would do. You captured the tower, you imprisoned and pushed me, and possibly delayed the corruption of the Sibling. Because you hoped to find this anti-Voidlight. Not because you wanted a weapon against Odium. Because you wanted to show a mercy to your daughter.”
“We could never create enough of this anti-Light to threaten Odium,” Raboniel whispered. “That was another lie, Navani.:

And we do know what is Mishram's prison - a heliodor gemstone. It's just a gem, similar to the one used to imprison Thrill. WaT ch 3:

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“Some of us learned you could capture spren in gemstones,” he explained. “And Mishram—for all her power—is a spren. The Radiants prepared a flawless heliodor the color of sunlight, and they trapped her inside, then hid her prison. Not in the Physical Realm, and not in Shadesmar.” He bit his lip, then forced out another part. “In the Spiritual Realm. Melishi hid it there.”

 

Spoiler

Questioner

With Shards, are there any... limits? What can't they do? Besides being opposed by another Shard and their own intent?

Brandon Sanderson

It varies a lot. It varies based on experience and situation. They are not omnipotent, though the power is infinite. So that is the weird part that you get into. So, they are limited partially by their own limitations, and also the limitations imposed upon them by the situations they're in.

Questioner

Is there anything universal about all of them?

Brandon Sanderson

They all have bits of them in all of the cosmere, so that's universal. They all are bounded more by themselves than by the power itself.

Skyward Chicago signing (Nov. 16, 2018)

 

Spoiler

James Clifford

Science question!

Brandon Sanderson

Ohh science. Is it real science, or fake science?

Adam Horne

It is Brandon science.

Brandon Sanderson

Fake science!

James Clifford

With the discovery of anti-Investiture in Rhythm of War, would the correct form of anti-Investiture be usable to clear up the mess in the Sel Cognitive Realm. If so, would this completely destroy a splintered Shard?

Brandon Sanderson

*laughs, coughs, and is otherwise stunned* That would not be a good idea. So why would that not be a good idea? So no, this would not clear up the problem. The problem that's going on in the Cognitive Realm in Sel is that a bunch of Investiture that should be in the Spiritual Realm has been packed into the Cognitive Realm instead, through a very weird circumstance of events. If you were to introduce a bunch of anti-Investiture of the right type there, you would just generate an explosion that would be a very bad thing. Matter cannot be created or destroyed, Investiture can't be either, so it's actually changing forms. It's going from Investiture into energy! Which you know, does not leave the system. So the investiture would eventually make its way back around, you can't destroy anything in the Cosmere, just like you can't destroy anything in our universe. But you can make it change forms. And so, what's going on there is just this hope by a certain individual that what has happened there will prevent the power from becoming self-aware.

It's basically Odium being like "alright I just murdered you people, I don't wanna have to come back and do it again". So he's trying to figure out a way to make this happen. As it currently stands (again, these things can change when I write future books), it was partially happenstance that he took advantage of rather than something that he was able to set up very intentionally from the beginning, but he was definitely a part.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 2 (June 3, 2021)

 

[coolsnow7]

1 hour ago, GudThymes said:

what if the power itself is the prison and Mraize is going to destroy the majority of the Shards power itself by creating a light/anti light annihilation.

 

Dropping a liter of anti-water in the ocean would make an explosion to rival the biggest nuclear weapon humans have created. It still would leave you with 99.9999999999999% of the water you started with.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

2 hours ago, GudThymes said:

With that said here is my supposition. Mraize is going to the SR not to kill BAM or any specific Spren, but to destroy BAMs prison itself.

Why? What is the point? If they want to control BAM having her inside a gem stone is ideal.

[GudThymes he/him]

7 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Why? What is the point? If they want to control BAM having her inside a gem stone is ideal.

Im suggesting that some amount of Honors investiture in the SR is being used as an additional layer to the gemstone. The focus isn't BAM but Honors investiture.

If stormlight/anti-stormlight work similar to matter/antimatter collisions then theoretically excess investiture should be converted into kinetic energy based off the sheer quantity of anti-light present. I don't think it is like fission where other anti-light undergoes the reaction but the force of the annihilation should be enough to have some effect on the other investiture.

Also, Iyatil wants to subjugate BAM. We don't know that Mraize wants to as well.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

55 minutes ago, GudThymes said:

Im suggesting that some amount of Honors investiture in the SR is being used as an additional layer to the gemstone. The focus isn't BAM but Honors investiture.

How could Mraize have learned that in time to arm himself accordingly?