BIG_IG Posted October 11, 2024 Posted October 11, 2024 Does anyone know if with a Lerasium spike you could steal a knights radiant's surges and bond?
Trusk'our he/him Posted October 11, 2024 Posted October 11, 2024 (edited) 40 minutes ago, BIG_IG said: Does anyone know if with a Lerasium spike you could steal a knights radiant's surges and bond? This is a bit of a weird one, as despite the fact that Surgebinding requires functional powers like Allomancy or Feruchemy does, I think a Surgebinding Nahel Bond is just an extra strong Connection (perhaps with an Identity overlap between Spiritwebs) between a person and a Radiant Spren, which effectively plugs the Spren's innate powers into the person. Stealing that Connection should swap the Spren's Bond to you instead, so yes, I think that Lerasium can steal a bond and its powers if I understand it correctly (though remember, the Spren still has autonomy over said bond and can break it as they choose, so spiking the powers out of the Spren will typically prove necessary to retain them). Edited October 11, 2024 by Trusk'our
+Lewis Nethur He/Him Posted October 11, 2024 Posted October 11, 2024 47 minutes ago, BIG_IG said: Does anyone know if with a Lerasium spike you could steal a knights radiant's surges and bond? Can it...? Yes, I think technically it probably could...but I also think we're getting deep into the territory of the answer being "no..." for the question: "would or could anyone ever gather, coordinate, and exhaust the level of resources needed to do so?" Simultaneously. Recall: once hemalurgically charged, our best current understanding is that a cotiguous piece of lerasium is fundamentally altered in how it functions permanently. It can thenceforth only be used for grafting the souls of the dead unto the living in place of their own, which is pretty messed up to think about...
Trusk'our he/him Posted October 12, 2024 Posted October 12, 2024 3 minutes ago, hwiles said: Recall: once hemalurgically charged, our best current understanding is that a cotiguous piece of lerasium is fundamentally altered in how it functions permanently. It can thenceforth only be used for grafting the souls of the dead unto the living in place of their own, which is pretty messed up to think about... This is something I was actually pondering on. A Hemalurgically charged metal changes its Allomantic properties, yes, but Hemalurgic charges naturally drain over time, returning them to their original state (and given that Compounding requires a conscious choice on the practitioners part, it may be that a Hemalurgically charged metal requires the same and therefore can be burned as normal while still bearing Hemalurgic Investiture). It does take awhile and the charge never completely goes away, but at least most of the Lerasium could be burned as normal given time if works the same as Compounding. Spoiler https://wob.coppermind.net/events/98-worldbuilders-ama/#e860 yurisses If Miles stored a very tiny bit of health into a gold bead and then burned it, what would happen? Would he see goldshadows for a time and then obtain Compounded health when reaching the charged part of the bead? Would the bead be evenly charged and deliver only health, no gold shadows, but at a very low rate since only little health was loaded in it? Would the bead be evenly charged and deliver only health, but at a standard rate the user would always get when compounding? Brandon Sanderson He'd hack the system to deliver health for a short time instead of doing what it was supposed to do, but only until the small portion of gold Invested with his Investiture ran out. It might also be worth considering that a Tone or Anti-tone could force the Investiture out more quickly and completely, allowing you to use a piece of Lerasium Hemalurgically at one point (probably for experimentation, mostly) and then use it Allomantically later with no long term detriment.
alder24 Posted October 12, 2024 Posted October 12, 2024 14 hours ago, BIG_IG said: Does anyone know if with a Lerasium spike you could steal a knights radiant's surges and bond? No, a Lerasium spike steals attributes only (strength, senses, intelligence etc), not powers. You can steal a bond with a duralumin spike, because that's Connection, but the spren is sapient, they can and will decide to break the stolen bond. It's possible to get Surgebinding powers with Hemalurgy, you need to not only steal the Connection from the Radiant, but also the powers directly from the spren (as it's the spren that has Surgebinding powers encoded in their Spirit Web). WoBs: Spoiler Questioner So, the fan page wanted to know. Would it be possible for Hemalurgy to steal a living Shardblade? That was the top voted question. Brandon Sanderson Ok, so you're bonded to a Shardblade. You get spiked, then they spike off the bond so that the Shardblade is bonded to someone else. Questioner I assume so... Brandon Sanderson But can they do it with a living Shardblade? You can definitely do it with a dead Shardblade because its just stealing the Connection. With a living Shardblade, yes you could do that 'though the spren could break the bond at will. Questioner So the spren would survive? That was the second-- the corollary-- Brandon Sanderson Ehhh. Would the spren survive? The spren would survive as long as the oaths were-- Questioner Intact? Brandon Sanderson --the person didn't break the oaths. But you could theoretically steal the bond, break the oaths, and kill the spren. If you wanted to. Its a very convoluted to kill a spren, they are easier to kill than that, but yes. You could do that. That is a viable but twisted route that you can do. You would end up with a dead spren and a Shardblade, so there is that. But there are easier ways to accomplish that... White Sand vol.1 Orem signing (June 29, 2016) Spoiler Questioner (paraphrased) If I wanted to Hemalurgically acquire a power from First of the Sun, which metal would the spike need to be? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) This is going to be pretty complicated, but several metals would work. Questioner (paraphrased) Would it involve Connection between the person being spiked and the bird? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Well it would be even harder than on Roshar, where you need to somehow spike the spren and also the Radiant. You would need to spike the bird and steal the power, but also spike the person and steal Connection. GenCon 2017 (Aug. 17, 2017) 1
BIG_IG Posted October 13, 2024 Author Posted October 13, 2024 On 10/12/2024 at 9:40 AM, alder24 said: No, a Lerasium spike steals attributes only (strength, senses, intelligence etc), not powers. You can steal a bond with a duralumin spike, because that's Connection, but the spren is sapient, they can and will decide to break the stolen bond. It's possible to get Surgebinding powers with Hemalurgy, you need to not only steal the Connection from the Radiant, but also the powers directly from the spren (as it's the spren that has Surgebinding powers encoded in their Spirit Web). WoBs: Reveal hidden contents Questioner So, the fan page wanted to know. Would it be possible for Hemalurgy to steal a living Shardblade? That was the top voted question. Brandon Sanderson Ok, so you're bonded to a Shardblade. You get spiked, then they spike off the bond so that the Shardblade is bonded to someone else. Questioner I assume so... Brandon Sanderson But can they do it with a living Shardblade? You can definitely do it with a dead Shardblade because its just stealing the Connection. With a living Shardblade, yes you could do that 'though the spren could break the bond at will. Questioner So the spren would survive? That was the second-- the corollary-- Brandon Sanderson Ehhh. Would the spren survive? The spren would survive as long as the oaths were-- Questioner Intact? Brandon Sanderson --the person didn't break the oaths. But you could theoretically steal the bond, break the oaths, and kill the spren. If you wanted to. Its a very convoluted to kill a spren, they are easier to kill than that, but yes. You could do that. That is a viable but twisted route that you can do. You would end up with a dead spren and a Shardblade, so there is that. But there are easier ways to accomplish that... White Sand vol.1 Orem signing (June 29, 2016) Reveal hidden contents Questioner (paraphrased) If I wanted to Hemalurgically acquire a power from First of the Sun, which metal would the spike need to be? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) This is going to be pretty complicated, but several metals would work. Questioner (paraphrased) Would it involve Connection between the person being spiked and the bird? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Well it would be even harder than on Roshar, where you need to somehow spike the spren and also the Radiant. You would need to spike the bird and steal the power, but also spike the person and steal Connection. GenCon 2017 (Aug. 17, 2017) If you read the ars arcanum in the back of the lost metal, it says that a Lerasium spike steals all powers, not attributes. That's why I was wondering.
alder24 Posted October 13, 2024 Posted October 13, 2024 48 minutes ago, BIG_IG said: If you read the ars arcanum in the back of the lost metal, it says that a Lerasium spike steals all powers, not attributes. That's why I was wondering. It says "steals all abilities," not powers and those are attributes from Feruchemy - speed, strength etc. Powers are Invested Arts like Allomancy or Surgebinding. It's confusing as at no point in books abilities were defined, but we have this WoB which confirmed it: Spoiler Pagerunner The Hemalurgy table, you wrote down "atium steals any power, lerasium is all abilities, nicrosil is Investiture"; what's the difference between those three? Hemalurgic atium, lerasium, and nicrosil. What's powers, abilities, and Investiture? Brandon Sanderson People are Invested in ways that do not give them active powers. So for instance, everyone on Nalthis is Invested. Everyone in the cosmere is, really. You want to steal their Investiture, but they don't have a power. You're still ripping off a piece of their soul. So there is a distinction between the actual Investiture that's in a human being and a specific power that they have. So that distinction is pretty easy. You can also, with Hemalurgy, steal specific things. You can steal just general Investiture. You can steal, if you want--this is where the kandra Blessings come from. You can instead steal specific things that are not like stealing Allomancy. Stealing, for instance, someone's mental acuity. Pagerunner So abilities is like the half that's all the strength, speed, all that kind of stuff? Those are abilities, versus the Metallic Arts are all powers? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Pagerunner Then Investiture, is that offworld magics? Brandon Sanderson No, no, it's the raw power. Pagerunner Nicrosil is their soul? Brandon Sanderson Yes. A piece of their soul, essentially. Pagerunner So how would you go about stealing an offworld power? Brandon Sanderson It's going to depend. A Breath, you would steal with nicrosil. It's general Investiture, is what you would probably going call that. You could forcibly remove someone's Breath from them. The ability to be a Sand Master you would steal with the power ability. JordanCon 2021 (July 16, 2021) 2
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