Why the Eye Spikes?

[Steel Speedster ♂]

I recently asked myself a simple question that I had never thought about before.

Why do Inquisitors have spikes through their eyes?

There seems to be no practical reason why that had to be the case. I briefly wondered if those were perhaps the only bindpoints for A-steel and A-iron spikes, but we have at least one example that disproves this. Zane had an A-steel spike, and it was in his back, rather than the eye. This means that there are in fact other places the spikes could have gone that would not result in loss of sight.

Sure, intimidation could be a reason, but I don't think intimidation is worth losing one of your senses.

The answer that I believe to be correct is this: the Lord Ruler did not want his Inquisitors to be as powerful as possible. We have multiple examples of things that the Lord Ruler did to deliberately make them easier to control. He didn't let them wear protection over their linchpin spike, because he wanted to be able to pull it out if need be. He also didn't let them have any Feruchemical powers, except for F-gold (and apparently F-atium in some cases.) So, I think for the same reason, he was willing to sacrifice their ability to see for the intimidation factor of having henchmen with giant chunks of metal sticking through their heads.

So, the eye spikes are not the ideal way of doing things, at least not the ideal way for the recipients of those spikes. However, if we're talking about trying to make the most effective Inquisitor possible, all the spikes would most likely be much smaller and less obvious.

[Trusk'our he/him]

2 hours ago, Speeding Steelrunner said:

I recently asked myself a simple question that I had never thought about before.

Why do Inquisitors have spikes through their eyes?

There seems to be no practical reason why that had to be the case. I briefly wondered if those were perhaps the only bindpoints for A-steel and A-iron spikes, but we have at least one example that disproves this. Zane had an A-steel spike, and it was in his back, rather than the eye. This means that there are in fact other places the spikes could have gone that would not result in loss of sight.

Sure, intimidation could be a reason, but I don't think intimidation is worth losing one of your senses.

The answer that I believe to be correct is this: the Lord Ruler did not want his Inquisitors to be as powerful as possible. We have multiple examples of things that the Lord Ruler did to deliberately make them easier to control. He didn't let them wear protection over their linchpin spike, because he wanted to be able to pull it out if need be. He also didn't let them have any Feruchemical powers, except for F-gold (and apparently F-atium in some cases.) So, I think for the same reason, he was willing to sacrifice their ability to see for the intimidation factor of having henchmen with giant chunks of metal sticking through their heads.

So, the eye spikes are not the ideal way of doing things, at least not the ideal way for the recipients of those spikes. However, if we're talking about trying to make the most effective Inquisitor possible, all the spikes would most likely be much smaller and less obvious.

I believe Marsh states the primary reason Inquisitors have larger spikes is specifically for intimidation (in HoA).

I don't think it's a stretch to assume this would be done for eye spikes as well.

Plus, there are some serious advantages to eye spikes: you can see in complete darkness and you can't be blinded in a traditional manner. 

That said, as I've thought on linchpin spikes more, I think having eye spikes forces you to have a linchpin in the back around the base of the neck to coordinate the eye spikes with the ones on the lower body.

This placement makes it easier to remove that linchpin and kill them should they become to rebellious. 

[Treamayne]

2 hours ago, Speeding Steelrunner said:

Why do Inquisitors have spikes through their eyes?

The "Author" answer is simple:

Spoiler

Questioner

What inspired Hemalurgy?

Brandon Sanderson

So Hemalurgy was probably-- It's hard for me to say, because it's been fifteen years, but I think I started with the image of the Inquisitors with spikes through their eyes. At the same time I was trying to work up a third magic system to go in the trilogy so I could have one magic, two magic, three magic, and I wanted one that was super creepy and evil. And I built it around those two ideas.

Skyward Houston signing (Nov. 19, 2018)

In world, likely because Rashek, whhile holding the Power in the Well, knew that for a Construct whose primary purpose was Hunting people - having Steel/Iron Sight and being able to see movement through doors and walls is a massive advantage (with a side of intimidation). But also, know that part of constructing Inquisitors and Koloss was influenced by Ruin - and Ati was very interested in pushing the bounds of the servants he could manipulate rashek into making for him. 

 

Spoiler

TLM Ars Arcanum:

Spoiler

 In the ancient days, Ruin was pushing hard on the fabric of Scadrial, leaking into spiritwebs through any method possible. Causing souls to decay faster, to accept more spikes than they should have been able to, and leaving the resulting person burdened beyond what was reasonable.

Quote

Anusien

Why did Lord Ruler not destroy the logbook knowing what trouble Ruin could cause with it?

Brandon Sanderson

A few reasons. First, Ruin had his fingers in the LR’s soul by then already. Subtle things are easier to influence.

He played off the LR’s natural nostalgia and desire to hold onto something so important to his past.

#tweettheauthor 2009 (July 8, 2009)

Quote

Questioner

The Lord Ruler used a lot of metal for shielding and stuff. But if he had had an aluminum helmet himself, would it have protected him from Ruin's influence at all, or would the spikes overcome that?

Brandon Sanderson

Aluminum helmet would help in that situation. Aluminum could very well have been something useful for resisting, yeah.

JordanCon 2021 (July 17, 2021)

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

The Mechanism of Hemalurgy

The Blessings and the workings of Hemalurgy gave me some trouble as I designed the second and third books of this series. On one hand, I liked the way Hemalurgy worked by stealing powers from Allomancers or Feruchemists and giving them to other people. However, if I was going to limit myself to sixteen metals and be able to steal both Allomancy and Feruchemy, that meant I needed a mechanism to determine which power got stolen. If, for instance, you drove a pewter spike into a person who was both an Allomancer and a Feruchemist, then how would that spike know which power to suck out and grant to the one who would gain it?

As I was toying with how this would work, I realized that I needed to work the kandra and the koloss into this as well. Only, it was ridiculous to assume that the Lord Ruler would kill Allomancers to make koloss. There weren't enough Allomancers, for one thing—plus it would be foolish to lose the power of an Allomancer to gain an inferior tool in a koloss.

So that meant koloss had to be made out of regular people, not Allomancers or Feruchemists. Suddenly I had another set of abilities that Hemalurgy had to be able to steal—the basic pieces of Preservation inside the souls of all men.

Hence the decision that where the spike was placed in the receiver, and how it was used to kill a person, influenced how the power was shaped. Now a pewter spike could steal any of a number of powers, based on how it was used. And regular people could be used instead of Allomancers—however, when that happened, the receiver was twisted much more than if an Allomantically charged spike or a Feruchemically charged spike was used.

My rationale for this is that if the spike is pulling out the pure power of Preservation—part of the power of all creation—and twisting it, it would change the body of the recipient greatly. Twisting them through use of the twisted power.

The Hero of Ages Annotations (Nov. 17, 2009)

 

Hope that helps.

[Steel Speedster ♂]

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

Plus, there are some serious advantages to eye spikes: you can see in complete darkness and you can't be blinded in a traditional manner. 

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

having Steel/Iron Sight and being able to see movement through doors and walls is a massive advantage

From my understanding, you don't need spikes through the eyes in order to have this ability. Any Coinshot or Lurcher can learn to do it.

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

By the way, you probably remember form book one the way that Inquisitors see. They have such a subtle touch with Steel and Iron, and their lines, that they can see via the trace metals in everyone's bodies and in the objects around them.

The thing is, any Allomancer with access to iron or steel could learn to do this. Some have figured it out, in the past, but in current times, nobody–at least, nobody the heroes know–is aware of this. Except, of course, for Marsh.

And he chose not to share it.

The Well of Ascension Annotations (Nov. 11, 2007)

So, if the spikes were somewhere else, they would be able to see via iron/steelsight and still have their regular vision, although could argue that with access to normal vision they would have less incentive to learn this trick and it might take longer (or they might never learn.)

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

That said, as I've thought on linchpin spikes more, I think having eye spikes forces you to have a linchpin in the back around the base of the neck to coordinate the eye spikes with the ones on the lower body.

Yeah, I suppose that must be the case, since removing both eye spikes works to kill them as well.

Edited October 7, 2024 by Speeding Steelrunner

[Trusk'our he/him]

8 minutes ago, Speeding Steelrunner said:

From my understanding, you don't need spikes through the eyes in order to have this ability. Any Coinshot or Lurcher can learn to do it.

That's true. I do think it would be harder though, maybe requiring Savantism to pull off or at least a great deal of practice. 

[Treamayne]

22 minutes ago, Speeding Steelrunner said:

From my understanding, you don't need spikes through the eyes in order to have this ability. Any Coinshot or Lurcher can learn to do it.

True~ish. But you know what they say about Hindsight.

1. It's doubtful Rashek knew about that when "designing" the idea for Inquisitors while in the Well
2. Even less was recalled correctly afterward, which is why he had to experiment (See below)
3. As Kelsier and Wax both show, there are other issues when mixing pure Steelsight with normal vision
   • Wax works better with just a few steel lines over normal sight, but that can lose nuance Kar and Marsh both show Steelsight can offer

HoA Words of Founding (Ch 44 Epigraph) - 

Spoiler

Without the instinctive knowledge granted by taking the power at the Well of Ascension, Rashek would never have been able to use Hemalurgy. With his mind expanded, and with a little practice, he was able to intuit where to place spikes that would create the servants he wanted.
It is a little-known fact that the Inquisitors' torture chambers were actually Hemalurgic laboratories. The Lord Ruler was constantly trying to develop new breeds of servant. It is a testament to Hemalurgy's complexity that, despite a thousand years of trying, he never managed to create anything with it beyond the three kinds of creatures he developed during those few brief moments holding the power.

If the questioin were "Did Rashek need to put the spikes in the eyes" then I would agree that's a no.

Did he believe that placement offered advantages he wanted?
I would say that how effective Inquisitors were in the Final Empire indicates yes. 

Edited October 7, 2024 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Quantus he/him]

Correct me if Im wrong, but the Inquisitor sight is still different from a normal Allomancer in that they dont need to Burn metals to maintain it (right)?  Id been under the impression that using the Eye Socket Bind point is what lets the Perception element of the Power be active all the time, wiring it more directly into the existing Perception sectors of the Spiritweb circuitry. 

If true, Id expect that you could could also get permanent Seeker powers by shoving the right socket into their ear or something similar, where it fully sacrifices the normal sense and replaces it in the spiritweb with a Power-based alternative.

[Steel Speedster ♂]

1 minute ago, Quantus said:

Correct me if Im wrong, but the Inquisitor sight is still different from a normal Allomancer in that they dont need to Burn metals to maintain it (right)?

The Coppermind mentions it is possible that they don't need metals (the citation is from TLM, which I don't have a copy of handy), but we don't seem to have confirmation of this. However, I would agree that this could quite possibly be the case, in which case that is a practical reason why the spikes would be in the eyes.

[Trusk'our he/him]

20 minutes ago, Speeding Steelrunner said:

The Coppermind mentions it is possible that they don't need metals (the citation is from TLM, which I don't have a copy of handy), but we don't seem to have confirmation of this. However, I would agree that this could quite possibly be the case, in which case that is a practical reason why the spikes would be in the eyes.

Kelsier, who is currently incapable of burning metals, is able to use Steelsight with his eye spike.

His position is admittedly a bit weirder than Inquisitors (as a Cognitive Shadow and Sliver) but I think this still strongly suggests that eye spikes are able to inherently grant Steelsight without requiring the burning of metals. 

Quote

If true, Id expect that you could could also get permanent Seeker powers by shoving the right socket into their ear or something similar, where it fully sacrifices the normal sense and replaces it in the spiritweb with a Power-based alternative.

I agree. Honestly, I wonder if other senses or bodily functions can be tampered with as well, making them transform into more magical versions of their base form.

Edited October 7, 2024 by Trusk'our

[+Lewis Nethur He/Him]

5 hours ago, Speeding Steelrunner said:

I recently asked myself a simple question that I had never thought about before.

Why do Inquisitors have spikes through their eyes?

There seems to be no practical reason why that had to be the case. I briefly wondered if those were perhaps the only bindpoints for A-steel and A-iron spikes, but we have at least one example that disproves this. Zane had an A-steel spike, and it was in his back, rather than the eye. This means that there are in fact other places the spikes could have gone that would not result in loss of sight.

Sure, intimidation could be a reason, but I don't think intimidation is worth losing one of your senses.

The answer that I believe to be correct is this: the Lord Ruler did not want his Inquisitors to be as powerful as possible. We have multiple examples of things that the Lord Ruler did to deliberately make them easier to control. He didn't let them wear protection over their linchpin spike, because he wanted to be able to pull it out if need be. He also didn't let them have any Feruchemical powers, except for F-gold (and apparently F-atium in some cases.) So, I think for the same reason, he was willing to sacrifice their ability to see for the intimidation factor of having henchmen with giant chunks of metal sticking through their heads.

So, the eye spikes are not the ideal way of doing things, at least not the ideal way for the recipients of those spikes. However, if we're talking about trying to make the most effective Inquisitor possible, all the spikes would most likely be much smaller and less obvious.

Honestly, I've always just assumed it was a joke by the author. I hope this isn't polarizing or off-putting to say...and i can edit or spoiler tag it if it is...but the Inquisitors seem to share some operational characteristics with some of the fascist and nazi regimes of the real world. They have eye spikes because they can "not-see," pronounced basically the same as nazi. They can navigate their world just fine without eyes, but their lack thereof is a powerful and important thematic feature.

[Treamayne]

45 minutes ago, Speeding Steelrunner said:

The Coppermind mentions it is possible that they don't need metals (the citation is from TLM, which I don't have a copy of handy), but we don't seem to have confirmation of this. However, I would agree that this could quite possibly be the case, in which case that is a practical reason why the spikes would be in the eyes.

24 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

His position is admittedly a bit weirder than Inquisitors (as a Cognitive Shadow and Sliver) but I think this still strongly suggests that eye spikes are able to inherently grant Steelsight without requiring the burning of metals. 

Here's the relevant passage - TLM Epilogue 4:

Spoiler

Kelsier didn’t see quite as he once had. One eye saw as a mortal, the other as an immortal. His spiked eye not only pinned his soul to his bones, but gave him a constant overlay of blue, letting him see the world as a being like Sazed did. Outlining not only sources of metal, but all things. The very axi that made up matter had their own polarity, influenceable with Steelpushing under the right circumstances.

One eye of the gods. One eye of the common men. As he had always tried to see the world.

He had a spectacular view from the top of the skyscraper today.

 

[Quantus he/him]

45 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

I agree. Honestly, I wonder if other senses or bodily functions can be tampered with as well, making them transform into more magical versions of their base form.

Oh god, why did my mind immediately go to the idea of an F-Bendalloy granting spike shoved up the back-door to make it so you never need to physically poop again...?

[Trusk'our he/him]

44 minutes ago, Quantus said:

Oh god, why did my mind immediately go to the idea of an F-Bendalloy granting spike shoved up the back-door to make it so you never need to physically poop again...?

I. . . don't know. Wayne would probably approve though.

[Quantus he/him]

1 minute ago, Trusk'our said:

I. . . don't know. Wayne would probably approve though.

It's all your fault!  I was only considering "Senses", and you had to go and mention "Bodily Functions".

[Trusk'our he/him]

6 minutes ago, Quantus said:

It's all your fault!  I was only considering "Senses", and you had to go and mention "Bodily Functions".

In my defense, I was trying to suggest things like one's liver, heart, muscles, stuff like that. Not. . . whatever this is 

[Duxredux he/him]

Eye spikes are great walking propaganda that TLR had power over life and death as a deity. Having his servants flaunting fatal injuries adds to the general mystery and fear that cloaked the Steel Ministry. Even well informed and educated Skaa like Dox weren't entirely sure that Inquisitors could be killed - and people who believe they cannot win won't try as desperately to best an Inquisitor like Kelsier. 

Eye spikes also provide indisputable credentials. To imitate them you would need to understand the working nature of Hemalurgy, kill an Inquisitor and know to steal their spikes, or somehow prove an indepth understanding of the doctrines and practices of the ministry and get inducted into their ranks legitimately while bypassing all of their security checks. You'd need to incredibly adept and skilled far above the norm to be able to pull any of those off. Someone would need to obsess over that challenge for decades.

7 hours ago, Quantus said:

Correct me if Im wrong, but the Inquisitor sight is still different from a normal Allomancer in that they dont need to Burn metals to maintain it (right)?  Id been under the impression that using the Eye Socket Bind point is what lets the Perception element of the Power be active all the time, wiring it more directly into the existing Perception sectors of the Spiritweb circuitry. 

If true, Id expect that you could could also get permanent Seeker powers by shoving the right s n nmocket into their ear or something similar, where it fully sacrifices the normal sense and replaces it in the spiritweb with a Power-based alternative.

My old Hemalurgic Nose idea has resurfaced! I assume it may be just too dorky for the Steel Ministry.

 

Edit:

...what just happened when I started writing my post?

Edited October 8, 2024 by Duxredux
clarity

[HiGuysGames]

On 10/7/2024 at 9:18 PM, Speeding Steelrunner said:

Zane had an A-steel spike, and it was in his back, rather than the eye. This means that there are in fact other places the spikes could have gone that would not result in loss of sight.

The inquisitors had a lot of spikes so it could probably be possible that they just had a different spike in their back. The Hemalurgic Table had a map of Inquisitor spikes in the body but it didn't show which were in the front vs the back. If I were to wildly speculate though, the Hemalurgic Linchpin for the Inquisitors was a steel spike (A spike made of steel, but also the spike that steals physical allomantic powers) located in the upper back / lower neck, so could it be possible that that was where Zane had his spike? In which case, it would be much more important to have the linchpin spike there than it would be to have an A-Steel Spike.

On second look there actually is another spot in the back for physical spikes, which means that the argument is kind of moot. However, looking at the diagram of Inquisitor bind points (Which isn't every bind point but still probably useful) there seems to only be a couple of spots for physical Hemalurgic spikes outside of the eyes, so its possible they may have already been using those for other attributes? (A-Pewter, A-Tin, F-Pewter?, F-Steel?)

Edited October 14, 2024 by HiGuysGames
Reviewed my information and wanted to update the post to be more accurate

[Treamayne]

Welcome to the Shard. Please consider an Intro Post to let us know what you have or have-not read, so we can avoid spoilers if necessary. Also, please consider checking out the Sharder FAQ for some useful tips and tricks - as each forum is slightly different.  

5 hours ago, HiGuysGames said:

On 10/7/2024 at 9:18 AM, Speeding Steelrunner said:

Zane had an A-steel spike, and it was in his back, rather than the eye. This means that there are in fact other places the spikes could have gone that would not result in loss of sight.

If I were to wildly speculate though, the Hemalurgic Linchpin for the Inquisitors was a steel spike (A spike made of steel, but also the spike that steals physical allomantic powers) located in the upper back / lower neck, so could it be possible that that was where Zane had his spike?

Zane's Spike was not in his back - it was above the Sternum, and it was so long that the point stuck out of his back (like Inquisitor Spikes sticking out of the back of their head). 

WoA Ch 46:

Spoiler

He unwrapped the mistcloak and withdrew the things it protected—several vials of metal and a pouch filled with beads. Atium.

He knelt there for a long moment. Then, he reached up to his chest, feeling the space just above his rib cages. Where his heart thumped.

There was a large bump there. There always had been. He didn’t think about it often; his mind seemed to get distracted when he did. It, however, was the real reason he never wore cloaks.

He didn’t like the way that cloaks rubbed against the small point of the spike that stuck out of his back just between the shoulder blades. The head was against his sternum, and couldn’t be seen beneath clothing.

 

Edited October 14, 2024 by Treamayne
SPAG/Links

[Steel Speedster ♂]

5 hours ago, HiGuysGames said:

The inquisitors had a lot of spikes so it could probably be possible that they just had a different spike in their back. The Hemalurgic Table had a map of Inquisitor spikes in the body but it didn't show which were in the front vs the back. If I were to wildly speculate though, the Hemalurgic Linchpin for the Inquisitors was a steel spike (A spike made of steel, but also the spike that steals physical allomantic powers) located in the upper back / lower neck, so could it be possible that that was where Zane had his spike? In which case, it would be much more important to have the linchpin spike there than it would be to have an A-Steel Spike.

 

That could definitely be true, but I think that there are probably additional A-steel bindpoints. Even if there weren't, as long as there were additional bindpoints for whatever spike was in A-steel's place, they could just switch them out and put that one somewhere else.

There are between 200 and 300 bindpoints on the human body, so I don't think that there could possibly be spikes that only have one or two bindpoints. If one were to assume that each bindpoint only takes a single type of spike, that's an average of 11 - 18 bindpoints available for each type of spike, and considering that Inquisitors had 11 spikes at most, they would have plenty of places to put each type of spike.

5 hours ago, HiGuysGames said:

On second look there actually is another spot in the back for physical spikes, which means that the argument is kind of moot. However, looking at the diagram of Inquisitor bind points (Which isn't every bind point but still probably useful) there seems to only be a couple of spots for physical Hemalurgic spikes outside of the eyes, so its possible they may have already been using those for other attributes? (A-Pewter, A-Tin, F-Pewter?, F-Steel?)

Physical Feruchemical powers use pewter spikes, though it doesn't matter much, because Inquisitors weren't given any Feruchemical powers except F-gold. So, if we're going on the assumption that all steel spikes would share bindpoints, which may or may not be the case, the Inquisitors would have two other steel spikes for A-tin and A-pewter.

It's possible that there simply weren't enough bindpoints, but I've never gotten the impression that running out of places for spikes is a concern for a Hemalurgist. I think that there are most likely many bindpoints available for each type of spike and that Inquisitors had eye spikes for other reasons discussed above.

57 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Zane's Spike was not in his back - it was above the Sternum, and it was so long that the point stuck out of his back (like Inquisitor Spikes sticking out of the back of their head). 

Oh yeah. That was my fault. I said back first, but you're right.