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The Nightwatcher is human


Oudeis

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Random theory based on not much. Be brutal.

 

We know the Nightwatcher has some correlation to Cultivation.

 

 

Question
Is the Nightwatcher a spren of Cultivation in a similar way that the Stormfather is to Honor?
Brandon Sanderson
The Nightwatcher is not Cultivation but is related. You're on the right track.

 

Source.

 

My theory is, the woman who took up Cultivation abdicated when Honor was shattered. I think that, just as SPOILER did, she was able to use her power to modify her mortal body in some manner that allows her to be immortal, as well as to have some other great power that allows her to perform the Old Magic. I think she is now the most powerful human on Roshar.

 

I'm not entirely certain if someone else is Cultivation now, or if she was able to do something in the process perhaps that would allow Cultivation to exist without a mind. Or maybe she left behind a shadow of self.

 

As I said, just a random, speculative theory. Feel free to prove me wrong.

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Not sure if you meant to be vague on the "SPOILER" thing but it just says "Spoiler", not actual tags. 

 

I didn't feel like going to the effort of a full spoiler tag, including explanations on who should read it and who shouldn't. I figure, if you know who I'm talking about from context, then there can't be anything for me to spoil, and if you haven't read that part of that book, you won't get it from context, and thereby won't be spoiled.

 

Well the Nightwatcher is described as a spren, so unless she's pulling an Oz or doesn't look human anymore...

 

Remind me when this happens? I can recall that of the viewpoint characters we've seen, Dalinar, Lift and Taravangian are the only two who have actually met her. I'd like to hear what they have to say on it.

 

EDIT: I would suspect that in the fullness of their existences, Taln or Kalak could well have met her at some point. I don't think they mentioned it, however.

Edited by Outis
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While I concede, as I've conceded from the start, that this is a huge leap of speculation on my part, and I totally admit it's a long-shot, on a world with Lightweaving I'm still gonna say it's at least possible.
 
Reading the passage in question... it's one man referencing another work by the scholar who did, in fact, speak to the Nightwatcher. I grant that the balance of evidence remains against me, but considering the fact that it's an indirect reference, I'm not accepting it as absolute proof that my hypothesis has to be false.
 
(Random comment. The scholar Shallan reads is named Alai. The scholar HE references is Shubalai. Why are their names so similar? Coincidence?)
 
The references give me the feel of modernity, so I will concede that this record is likely free of the Hierocracy's touch, at the least.
 
I note that I did request people be brutal, and you have been. Thank you.

EDIT:
 

For the sake of simplicity, we'll assume his curse wasn't compulsive lying.

 

Her, and technically we don't even know she got a Boon/Curse out of the deal. The reference simply says they spoke.

Edited by Outis
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Actually it's the most logical to say she's a spren (propably  one of those who bonded with Bondsmiths). And if not a spren then I'd expect her to be a Bondsmith bonded to a spren related to Cultivation. But hey, every theory is a good one as long as it's fun to discuss it :lol:

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Wyndle refers to nightwatcher as 'mother' so i doubt she's human.

 

This more or less states my opinion. We know that spren existed on roshar before Honor and Cultivations arrival and the fact that she is called mother by a spren makes this seem like a real long shot.

 

If we knew anything about the birth of spren to better understand the context of them calling anyone mother in general I may be more incline to agree with you. How ever right now the best "example" we can give loosely for this is the stormfather and He is more the remnants of a shard mixed with the cognitive memory of the stormfather as supplied by humanity .

Based on this I think that while she may have been human at one point the cognitive perception of the "Nightwatcher" as a spren would exist. If they were human would they work together? would they be one and the same or 2 different being?

Its a nice theory but there is not enough information on HOW the Nightwatcher works to be anything but a Vague theory.

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That's okay; I've never claimed this is anything more than a vague theory.

 

Since spren are born from ideas, I don't really see how the "mother" of a spren has to be a spren. If you start a fire, firespren appear. Was the fire the progenitor of the spren?

 

There is WoB saying that there are spren about "of all three shards". By this logic, since we know the Stormfather is a spren-like thing related to Honor, and the closest thing left to Honor, it's not unreasonable that an Honorspren would call him Father. If Tanavast were still alive, I think Syl would refer to him as Father.

 

By my theory, the Nightwatcher was once, long ago, a human in love with Tanavast. She took up the Shard of Cultivation. Part of what she did was to cause some Cultivation spren to appear on Roshar, who consider her to be their "Mother". The woman abdicated the power and became the Nightwatcher, but she's still the same woman. Wyndle would still consider her "mother".

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One little nitpick - the fire doesn't create the flamespren, it attracts them. 

 

It's an interesting idea, but I think you'd need to back it with more evidence to really consider it a functional theory. At the moment it's really just a shot in the dark. But, if, five years down the line, turn out to be right, you can tell us all, "I told you so!"  :P

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It's an interesting idea, but I think you'd need to back it with more evidence to really consider it a functional theory. At the moment it's really just a shot in the dark. But, if, five years down the line, turn out to be right, you can tell us all, "I told you so!"  :P

 

Yeah, I don't consider it a functional theory. It's really just a fancy of mine. I don't think it can be disproven, and I sorta thought more people would think it was a cool idea, which is why I posted it, but if it's not striking anyone else's fancy, I'm just gonna sit here twiddling my thumbs and quietly believing it.

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"Your God is secretly Human" is a thing that happens a lot in cosmer stuff so it would not be all that surprising. That said without that godhood the subject of the Blessings and curses given by the Nightwatcher becomes much more interesting.

 

Its not that it does not tickle my fancy so much as the lack of information for or against and the sudden headache of trying to understand her as something else requires too much handwavia for me to pursue it right now. We have a glyph to find in elantris, Warbreaker to go back over for hints on shardblades and plate, Shinovar to examine, the Jazna chapter from the newsletter to corroborate with other references on Shadesmer for hints.

 

And how much of the MAG and AoL supplement can be counted as cannon versus the noncannon to argue over.

Cool idea, we will keep it in the back of our heads during the next book, but nothing we can stew on and a lot more fleshed out hints to debate on.

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And how much of the MAG and AoL supplement can be counted as cannon versus the noncannon to argue over.

Tackling the easy one first. None of it. Unless and until confirmed in text or WoB, nothing in MAG or any supplement is canon.

...the sudden headache of trying to understand her as something else requires too much handwavia for me to pursue it right now.

Aru? What do we understand her as, now? That I know of, all we actually know is that she's got some relation to Cultivation. Are you saying you've already made up your mind that she's just the same thing as the Stormfather?

Cool idea, we will keep it in the back of our heads during the next book, but nothing we can stew on and a lot more fleshed out hints to debate on.

Yep. Again, that's all I'm going for here.

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Tackling the easy one first. None of it. Unless and until confirmed in text or WoB, nothing in MAG or any supplement is canon.

 

Off topic for thread:

 

Technically MAG stuff (or at least the worldbuilding material from MAG, not so much game mechanics)  is at least secondary canon, unless directly contradicted by primary canon.  At least that is what Brandon told Crafty games (if I remember correctly the stipulation was "You are canon, unless I decide to change things in future books").

Edited by WeiryWriter
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