Are Kaladin and Szeth the Knights of Wind and Truth?

[Confused]

Someone must have already raised this, because it seems obvious that Kal becomes the Knight of Wind and Szeth becomes the Knight of Truth. I think this happens when each swears their Fifth Oath. That Oath causes the human and spren to merge and (IMO) become their Order’s Ideal, their Divine Attributes. Windrunners’ Attributes are Protection and Leadership. Skybreakers’ Attributes  are Justness and Confidence.

From Kal’s first appearance in WoK, the Wind has always shown itself to him, even before he met Syl. Who better to Protect and Lead than someone who literally sees the direction the Wind is blowing? Who better than Szeth, the Truthless, to confidently assert Law and Truth?

Kal and Szeth are going on a Fleet field trip to Shinovar. The rest is...

Speculation

Kaladin

Kal “runs” there with the highstorm until he meets Ishar. Ishar deprives Kaladin of Stormlight, making him a mere mortal. Maybe Ishar needs the assurance that Kal’s conversations are purely mundane. Maybe because Ishar’s crazy. Who knows why, but I think that will happen. Kal nonetheless heals Ishar to some level of normalcy. This may be the event that allows Kal to swear his Fifth Oath.

The Wind wants Kal’s help, and he becomes the Wind’s Protector, the Knight of the Wind. In this role, he forges peace between Roshar’s inhabitants. Maybe those who want to follow Taravangian and El will leave. The remaining Rosharans rebuild that ravaged planet. The Heavenly Ones mostly stay behind. Kal and Leshwi...? Purely platonic, of course.

Wit’s clear Kal will be forced to ascend or his mission will fail. After a long look at Honor, recent speculation centers on the Wind itself. Both make sense. While the Wind is weak, she does exist. It doesn’t seem “honorable” for Kal to replace her. And why introduce her only to kill her and smooth Kal’s way to immortality?

Wit seems more concerned for Kal than if Kal were a simple substitute for a Stormfather-sized spren. The Fleet story does seem to favor this possibility, though, since Fleet flies forever in the Wind. The Wind spren precedes the Shattering, enough Investiture to be considered a god. As others note, the Storm has replaced the Wind. From whence the storm’s ferocity? Honor, Cultivation, Odium? Simply a result of more available Investiture? Something else?

But maybe the Wind is a small manifestation of the living planet Roshar? Could Adonalsium have given Roshar a mind to make it different from other planets? Perhaps the tones of Roshar belonged to the being Roshar before Honor, Cultivation, and Odium overwhelmed the living planet with their Investiture. Did they kill the being Roshar? Will Kaladin ascend to become Roshar itself?

Who knows. Just speculation.

Szeth

This is Szeth’s book. From the Stone Shamans and Ishar himself, Szeth will discover Shinovar’s origin and place on Roshar. With his unique ability to correlate facts, Szeth will find the Truth of what happened then and make his own judgments. His conclusion may lead him to the Fifth Oath. Szeth may also pass judgment on the Heralds. Perhaps he absolves them for abandoning Taln and redeems their guilt. Maybe he helps Kaladin in peace discussions between the Singers and humans.

Conclusion

The writer of the published chapters’ epigraphs refers to Kaladin in the third person. The writer treats the Knights of Wind and Truth as an Order, like KR Orders. Maybe Kal and Szeth founded this Order. I speculate the KWT exist to protect Roshar from...something. Invaders from other planets seeking Roshar’s Investiture? Odium’s return? Ensuring Roshar remains the Switzerland of planets, always neutral in the Shardic Wars? We’ll all see soon enough!

[LewsTherinTelescope]

Holy crem, been a long time since I've seen you here. Welcome back!

 

23 hours ago, Confused said:

That Oath causes the human and spren to merge and (IMO) become their Order’s Ideal, their Divine Attributes.

Nale's sworn the Fifth Ideal but still has his spren as a Blade, so while presumably the melding of souls will get stronger, I'm not convinced it ever becomes complete. Well, I guess the souls could meld completely but minds remain distinct? Still some degree of separation either way, though.

 

23 hours ago, Confused said:

But maybe the Wind is a small manifestation of the living planet Roshar? Could Adonalsium have given Roshar a mind to make it different from other planets?

This feels plausible. The spren refer to Roshar as female, and Wit seems to equate the Wind listening with Roshar listening:

Spoiler

“Because this is the journey, Kaladin,” Wit said softly. “The last part of it. Listen to me: I want you to practice with that flute until you make the sound return to you. Because that will mean Roshar is listening.”

 

I'm not sure about Kaladin. There's good reason to think he could Ascend, but I think the interpretation that the "fallen title" Rattle refers to him taking up the cloak and becoming king of Urithiru feels plausible too. If he does Ascend, the most likely option seems to me to be either Wind (he has a habit of claiming the wind as his own but making the distinction that the storm is merely a place he visits) or Honor (Child of Tanavast), becoming the entirety of Roshar feels less set up imo. Also, we still don't know why Dalinar was counting off the ten flashback characters in Oathbringer—might that be related somehow?

 

As for Szeth... No idea honestly. He's in a place where I could see his story ending really well or really badly. I want to be optimistic enough to believe that he will "become truth" as Ki says about the Ideal of Law, though, because my poor sad boi deserves all the happiness :(

It is interesting that both he and his highspren seem to think he's going to achieve it quickly:

Spoiler

"If you progress as a Skybreaker," the highspren said, "you will need to become the law. To reach your ultimate potential, you must know the truth yourself, rather than relying on the crutch presented by the Third Ideal. Be aware of this."

"I will."

"Continue your duty for now. But remember, the time will soon come when you must abandon it for something greater."

Spoiler

“I return to my homeland,” Szeth said softly, “to set right what is wrong. To cleanse an evil. To achieve the Fourth Ideal, a Skybreaker must undertake a crusade of righteous cause. Upon completing it, I will be poised for the final step, in which a man becomes the law itself. I wished to go alone, but Dalinar has insisted I bring you.”

Despite the masters discouraging people from worrying about it, he and his spren seem convinced it's the natural next step for him and won't come too far behind the Fourth.

[Confused]

On 8/29/2024 at 6:10 PM, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Holy crem, been a long time since I've seen you here. Welcome back!

Thank you, Lews! I remember you too. I'm old, but "The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated."

On 8/29/2024 at 6:10 PM, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I think the interpretation that the "fallen title" Rattle refers to him taking up the cloak and becoming king of Urithiru feels plausible too.

I agree this is also a possibility. I wrote a post some years ago entitled, "King Kaladin the Peace-Blessed." I predicted Kal would become King of Alethkar since both Singers and humans trust and respect him. In retrospect, I was thinking too small. King of all Roshar suits him just fine! Maybe the merged Kal-Syl can bond the planet itself!

Finally, I like cosmere limericks. I wrote this one to summarize the OP:

The Knights of the Wind and the Truth

Save Roshar from hateful pursuit.

They first must heal Ishar

In spren-less Shinovar,

Then settle the ancient dispute.

[Alternative last line: "Then resurrect old gods' repute."]

Regards, all! C.

Edited August 31, 2024 by Confused

[Diomedes]

On 8/29/2024 at 3:49 AM, Confused said:

Someone must have already raised this, because it seems obvious that Kal becomes the Knight of Wind and Szeth becomes the Knight of Truth.

I don`t think the Knights of Wind and Truth as named in the in world book are a reference to their fifth oath or even fourth oath abilities. Kal always had a special relationship to the Wind. Szeth was truthless but was "truthfull" all along.

As for the title of the upcoming SA book, I think Kal and Shallan are also a very good fit, Shallan having to say truths in order to progress. The KR started with these two (as Shallan says in ch. 13), and they were also our first PoV chars with surgebinding abilities.  

 

Edited September 10, 2024 by Diomedes

[+Bzhydack he/him]

One of new epigraphs is mentioning both Kal and Szeth as Wind's Champions, so they are both Knights of Wind. Shallan definitly can be Knight od Truth, but title sugests Knights of both, Wind and Truth, should be Plural, so who is second Knight of Truth? Actually, as im thinking of it, maybe Dalinar? His act in Oathbringer was greatly about discovering self - truth. Maybe also Navani?